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#21
08-15-2006, 09:38 AM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
[ QUOTE ]
If you guys have played live before you should know the floor gives time for lesser things. [/ QUOTE ] I play live in a time-charged game, though admittedly I haven't been playing it that long (a year, maybe one day a month or so). I've never seen the floor allow anything to get in the way of the time collection. I agree that they should make some concession to recognize that they wasted people's time, but I can't imagine it would ever interfere with the collection. The other day at FW I had a really bad dealer who in addition to dealing slowly, would stop the game every time a certain couple of players started jawing at each other. She also happened to have a fill in one of her downs, so there may have been four hands that got out that half-hour. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine any sort of break on the time collection. Maybe some comp points or something, but not the time collection. Again, I'm not as experienced in time-charged games as some, so maybe this happens and I've never seen it. No doubt playing time-charged games in competitive poker markets would be different, too. Fortunately when I do the accounting at the end of the day, $5/hh to sit in the $1-2 game is a drop in the bucket.... 
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#22
08-15-2006, 09:56 AM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
Villian raises. Hero thinks about mucking. Villian realizes his hand is gone due to being an idiot and the dealer doing his job. Hero wins a pot that he probably would have folded. Villian goes ballistic. Hero goes ballistic.
I think the only ones who did a good job here is the dealer and the floor (except for taking 10 minutes for a decision).
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#23
08-15-2006, 11:15 AM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
[ QUOTE ]
They atleast shouldnt have charged time for the next round They wasted a lot of it for the players. [/ QUOTE ] I am not seeing that they wasted much time. If a player asked for the supervisor or whatever you don't get to miss the time for that. You don't get a reduction in the drop for having a floor call.
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#24
08-15-2006, 03:45 PM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
I have had time credits at Foxwoods for simply being at a table of regulars in the middle of the night and having a dealer expose a card during the hand.
Also, I was pretty clear that I didn't go ballistic. And if you aren't seeing them wasting much time then you missed the hole taking 10 minutes to calm the villian down and make their ruling. I am pretty sure I posted this already though...
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#25
08-15-2006, 04:31 PM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
[ QUOTE ]
I have had time credits at Foxwoods for simply being at a table of regulars in the middle of the night and having a dealer expose a card during the hand. [/ QUOTE ] That's good to know. What game? And how do you go about asking for this? Truly, the other day was the first time I felt like I should have been entitled to a rebate on time, but in the end I just changed tables to get out of this woman's rotation and away from the people who were stopping the game. I would imagine they're going to be less generous in this sort of thing for a $1-2 player, but I could be wrong.
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#26
08-16-2006, 06:25 AM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
[ QUOTE ]
And if you aren't seeing them wasting much time then you missed the hole taking 10 minutes to calm the villian down and make their ruling. [/ QUOTE ] If it takes ten minutes to clean up a mess, don't blame the cleaning crew. Blame the guy who made the mess! In the case, Mr One Seat.
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#27
08-16-2006, 07:39 AM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
First of all, I wouldn't be that upset about winning the hand there. If villain had KhKx, he had 11 outs, so you might have lost a huge pot.
Villain is at fault for not protecting his hand. Villain is probably inexperienced. Dealer is also at fault for mucking hand in the middle of a huge hand. This is a pretty big error. Sometimes, when other players have folded to a big raise, dealer thinks player still in hand has folded too. Seems like floor made right decision. Caesers AC has a relatively new poker room. I was there once to play in their tournament. Their tournament had the ante as half the SB and the blinds usually doubling every level. It was common to have 3 players allin preflop. Obviously, they wanted people out of it quickly and back to raked poker or other casino games. I played some of the 1/2NL, which was very soft even for 1/2NL. They probably only have 2/5NL on peak times on weekends. The 2/5NL game may also be soft. However, if you want to play 2/5NL or above, it is better to go to Borgata or Tropicana, where things are probably more professionally run, and they generally have multiple 2/5 and higher tables.
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#28
08-16-2006, 12:34 PM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
[ QUOTE ]
First of all, I wouldn't be that upset about winning the hand there. If villain had KhKx, he had 11 outs, so you might have lost a huge pot. [/ QUOTE ] Do you realize how wrong you are here?
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#29
08-16-2006, 01:30 PM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] First of all, I wouldn't be that upset about winning the hand there. If villain had KhKx, he had 11 outs, so you might have lost a huge pot. [/ QUOTE ] Do you realize how wrong you are here? [/ QUOTE ] If you pick up the pot now, you win 467. 205 of that was yours, so you gain 262. If you each put another 450 in, there will be 1367 total. Villain has 11 outs of 44 cards left, so you are exactly a 3-1 favorite. 3/4 of 1367 is 1025, which is your expected win. You put 655 in the pot, so your expected gain is 370. So your gain is 262 if villain folds or his cards or mucked and your expected gain is 370 if both players go allin. So you do better on average going allin, but the difference is not as much as you might think. Villain is getting 2-1 on his money, but is a 3-1 dog, so getting the money in is advantageous, but not hugely so. I am not saying that getting him to fold is preferable, just that it is not that bad a result.
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#30
08-16-2006, 01:34 PM
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Re: Big Pot Heads Up - Dealer Mucks Opponents Cards - Horrible Ruling.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] First of all, I wouldn't be that upset about winning the hand there. If villain had KhKx, he had 11 outs, so you might have lost a huge pot. [/ QUOTE ] Do you realize how wrong you are here? [/ QUOTE ] If you pick up the pot now, you win 467. 205 of that was yours, so you gain 262. If you each put another 450 in, there will be 1367 total. Villain has 11 outs of 44 cards left, so you are exactly a 3-1 favorite. 3/4 of 1367 is 1025, which is your expected win. You put 655 in the pot, so your expected gain is 370. So your gain is 262 if villain folds or his cards or mucked and your expected gain is 370 if both players go allin. So you do better on average going allin, but the difference is not as much as you might think. Villain is getting 2-1 on his money, but is a 3-1 dog, so getting the money in is advantageous, but not hugely so. I am not saying that getting him to fold is preferable, just that it is not that bad a result. [/ QUOTE ] A difference ot 108 EV dollars (41% more) is huge. I hope you realize how wrong you are in this aspect of the situation. I repeat that dealer was doing his job, hero is being a douche, seat 1 learned a valuable lesson on protecting his hand while being a uber-douche.
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