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  #11  
Old 11-09-2007, 12:11 PM
binions binions is offline
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Default Re: can someone help me with the math behind pp\'s preflop?

[ QUOTE ]
Use the 5/10 rule. If you have to call less than 5% of the effective stacks (the lower stack between you and the raiser), then call.

If you have to call more than 10% of the effective stacks, then fold.

If you have to call between 5% and 10% of the effective stacks, then use your judgement based on your position, your image, and your understanding of the likelihood that the raiser will stack off to you if you flop your set. Sometimes you should fold. Sometimes you should call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many disagree with the 5-10 rule. I believe Flynn and Mehta prefer a 3-8 rule.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2007, 12:21 AM
Matt Flynn Matt Flynn is offline
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Default Re: can someone help me with the math behind pp\'s preflop?

this varies depending on opponents and stack sizes. we've used 12X, David used a higher number, doesn't really matter save for you need to expect at least 12X your preflop investment for it to be profitable. in the example you have the sunk cost of $35 so you would call the $75 raise if you could EXPECT to make $900-$1175 when you hit a set or better AND WIN. you suck up the loss of $35 because that's dead money once you get to the reraise.

the more conservative numbers allow for deeper stacks and more flush and straight hands played among other things. we worked around 100bb in a tightish game.

and, if getting reraised happens a fair amount of the time you should reevaluate your preflop raise, or at least the size of it when you play a range that consists mainly of pairs.
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2007, 05:05 PM
Mark1808 Mark1808 is offline
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Default Re: can someone help me with the math behind pp\'s preflop?

[ QUOTE ]
this varies depending on opponents and stack sizes. we've used 12X, David used a higher number, doesn't really matter save for you need to expect at least 12X your preflop investment for it to be profitable. in the example you have the sunk cost of $35 so you would call the $75 raise if you could EXPECT to make $900-$1175 when you hit a set or better AND WIN. you suck up the loss of $35 because that's dead money once you get to the reraise.

the more conservative numbers allow for deeper stacks and more flush and straight hands played among other things. we worked around 100bb in a tightish game.

and, if getting reraised happens a fair amount of the time you should reevaluate your preflop raise, or at least the size of it when you play a range that consists mainly of pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think your opponents raising range and tendency to stack off one pair greatly effects this calculation. A frequent raiser is not going to hit a hand they will stack off on at the same time you hit a set a significant percentage of the time.

Small PP are good examples of why aggressive poker is winning poker. If you are raising and C betting with small pp you give yourself more ways to win, then when someone slow plays a big pair against you and you flop a set you are more likely to get paid off.
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