Explain to me why this might be bad

[ajmargarine]

OK, a few of you might have guessed that I am not Hero in this hand. This is a hand that I observed fgators play when I sweated him the other night. And I have his permission to get SSNL's help with his hands so I posted this one because IMO it is fundamentally unsound.

Preflop: Some have said fold, some said 3b, some said call is fine. I think a 3b should be somewhat rare here and happen only in the flow of the game. A fold should be the default play. A call however is perfectly fine...if you play OK postflop.

Flop: I really like DCI's post above and I think he hits the high points of this hand. When a PFR checks that flop, he's most likely giving up on the hand. We should be betting this flop pretty much always with any two cards.

I have a problem with the bet size that fg used. We should really have a small-ranged default value bet size that we use on the flop HU. We should use it unless we have a good reason to deviate from it. It's simple ABC stuff. I think $12 is perfect here. fg bets $8.

We want him to fold his better hands here. So why do we give him a reason to call us? I don't know. Let's value bet it just like we would if we had Ax or 99. Let's bet $12 with our entire range here including air and our heart draw.

Turn This is really a textbook hand for winning a pot without the hand going to showdown. Our hand improves on the turn. He PFR'd and checked both flop and turn. Almost always villain has a real weak hand. IMO we should bet this turn exactly like we would if we have 99.

Because really, what is our plan if we check behind turn and we are stuck on the river with only a pair of 4's. We can't call a bet from him and he is much more likely to call a bet from us on the river than he is on the turn. So, let's bet back there and end the hand most of the time.

[Unknown Soldier]

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more on the flop and bet the turn. Other then that it's fine.

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Why more on the flop? Why bet the turn?

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think about villains hand range. It's not exactly going to be strong, but it beats a pair of 4s

[terp]

make a real flop bet.

checking the turn is terrible. the 4 doesn't give us showdown value (and we're not at showdown yet...) and he doesn't have an ace and he'll fold what he has on the turn.

if you're going to just call pre (which is fine and my standard and possibly preferable) you need to THINK ABOUT WHAT THE GUY HAS and play accordingly

edit: just read unknown soldier's post above mine [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[blah-blah-blah]

pre flop is fine no way you have to 3bet here w/ position. maybe its bad if we know the blinds squeeze a ton. bet the turn for sure unlikely he checks an good A on the flop and i find it hard to believe he's c/cing three streets w/ a weak ace so betting the turn folds out hands like KK/Qx and makes our line more believable if he calls w/ Ax and we brick the river.

[Chicago Twister]

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OK, a few of you might have guessed that I am not Hero in this hand. This is a hand that I observed fgators play when I sweated him the other night. And I have his permission to get SSNL's help with his hands so I posted this one because IMO it is fundamentally unsound.

Preflop: Some have said fold, some said 3b, some said call is fine. I think a 3b should be somewhat rare here and happen only in the flow of the game. A fold should be the default play. A call however is perfectly fine...if you play OK postflop.

Flop: I really like DCI's post above and I think he hits the high points of this hand. When a PFR checks that flop, he's most likely giving up on the hand. We should be betting this flop pretty much always with any two cards.

I have a problem with the bet size that fg used. We should really have a small-ranged default value bet size that we use on the flop HU. We should use it unless we have a good reason to deviate from it. It's simple ABC stuff. I think $12 is perfect here. fg bets $8.

We want him to fold his better hands here. So why do we give him a reason to call us? I don't know. Let's value bet it just like we would if we had Ax or 99. Let's bet $12 with our entire range here including air and our heart draw.

Turn This is really a textbook hand for winning a pot without the hand going to showdown. Our hand improves on the turn. He PFR'd and checked both flop and turn. Almost always villain has a real weak hand. IMO we should bet this turn exactly like we would if we have 99.

Because really, what is our plan if we check behind turn and we are stuck on the river with only a pair of 4's. We can't call a bet from him and he is much more likely to call a bet from us on the river than he is on the turn. So, let's bet back there and end the hand most of the time.

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This is one of the best summaries of basic, solid poker strategy I've ever read on 2p2.

[Bukem_]

Its bad cause it shows how fgators thinks in general. Little pamsy bets that don't accomplish much.

As soon as my opponent checks this flop to me there is pretty much no way they are winning unimproved. Their a8/qj already feels weak to them, I'm about to make them 100% hate their hand.

[Some9]

Cool thread.

And I think calling>>>3betting. I call a lot OTB. Got aVPIP around 50 there. And it works.

[SirFelixCat]

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I'm really confused as to why people think they have to have 'control' of a hand. Nobody likes having position in a smaller pot?

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You have no idea what a valuable concept this is vs most aggrotard's. I've embraced the call very much in spots. Let them keep bluffing into you.

[loosbastard]

Only time I'm 3-betting > calling pre here is if blinds are super squeezy. But as played I can't really add much:

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more on the flop and bet the turn. Other then that it's fine.

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