Harrah's New Orleans Floor Decision

[wakanohana]

psandman and the craps scenario is excellent.

FatalError's approach is very likely to be the most effective. Whether or not security will force him to pass the chips over is another story.

[Crane]

I was in a kill game today, and the guy who won the pot got called to the main game. It was his kill, so he had to post the kill before he moved.

The floor guy was standing right there so I asked him, "what if he wants to quit. Does he still have to put in his kill?"

He said that he did. He could quit if he wanted to, but he'd have to leave the kill money in the pot. Same situation. The guy could just quit and say, "screw you. I'm not putting nothin in."

[pokerswami]

[ QUOTE ]
They have no mechanism for enforcing it. What would you have them do? Hit the guy over the head and take his chips? What about that guy that didn't say "call" and wants to leave rather than play in a less than honest game? I would suggest that players insist on the chips being put into the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that "players insist on the chips being put into the pot."

However, what about the Nolan Dalla chip confiscation earlier this year? I realize that there was more to this than just the casino keeping the check, but they did more than just refuse to cash it in, they confiscated it from him.

Wasn't part of the justification of keeping the check that it is casino property? Refusing to cash it in is one thing, but keeping it is another. If a Las Vegas casino can just confiscate someone's checks, couldn't at least some other jurisdictions enable casinos to confiscate players' checks at will, also.

I think, really, that casino security is much less than what players think it is. It is more than 99% to protect the casino, not to protect their guests. Any favorable publicity they receive is just a bonus that they hope helps business. However, whether it is to protect their cash, to protect them from successful lawsuits, or to protect a few of their valued employees, it is all about the casino per se, not the patrons.

[MrCheckRaise]

This is the dealers fault in all circumstances where there is a bet and call that totals more than $500 the money should be put into the pot. That way there is no discussion whether or not someone said call or all in. I feel every room should take this into consideration. Lets put it this way if your playing 10-25NL in las vegas and your from lets say Iowa why would you trust any one on a $1000 bet and call. I want that money in the pot.
But what do I know They fire floormen like me with balls to back up the player

[MicroBob]

Yeah, you should make the guy put his chips in and all that.
But was that really a consideration for the floor when thyey heard one of the players shout out that his chips were stolen? Floor couldn't possibly have known at that point that it was just a verbal all-in that the guy grabbed back.

Player could have just pushed them forward and the dealer didn't scoop them into the pot so they were still within grabbing distance.

Unless floor was watching this hand they don't know if the guy put his chips forward, or grabbed them straight out of the middle of the table, or even if he just grabbed some chips off of somebody else's stack (maybe while they were looking away or while they were in the bathroom).

Hell, if nobody is going to stop you then it should be pretty easy to just grab somebody's stack when they go to the bathroom and walk right out of there before somebody thinks to say, "Were those his chips? Stip that thief!!"

[Al_Capone_Junior]

The dealer, floor and poker room manager are at fault in this situation. Since the cameras can't hear, the only way to enforce bets at the poker table is to make the players push the chips over the line (or forward past their cards if no betting line).


Unfortunately, virtually no rooms have any employees or policies that enforce this critical principle. Thus situations like this are all too common.


Whenever there is a verbal bet and a call, both (or all) players should immediately be required by the dealer to push the chips forward. When the cameras have clearly seen that a bet has been made, cardroom personelle have teeth to back up their policy of "verbal statements made in turn are binding."


This is understandably most difficult to enforce on the river, because you might get "I'm all-in," and "I call" happening wthin just a few seconds, followed by one player (often the winner) immediately turning over their hand.


Although the situation of the loser taking off with their chips (and without paying off the bet) is rare, there needs to be a policy and procedure in place to cover such situations when they do occur. Any time cardroom staff simply allows a player to walk out and get away with this appauling behavior, poker has been dealt a seriously negative blow.


If this happened to me and the staff did nothing about it, I would be having a very unpleasant conversation with the casino manager in very short order.


Al

[Bogeysave]

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Will the NOPD or LA State Police even give a crap as long as the guy lives through it?

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My advice - don't ever mess with NOPD or rely on them. If told to do something by these guys say yes sir or yes maam (and hope you got that part right) and move on. I doubt they would care about this unless you got a poker player officer.

[diddyeinstein]

[ QUOTE ]
Just for the Louisiana and Mississippi guys here. Who thinks that you have any legal problems whatsoever if you give the guy a beatdown and just scoop the $1200?

Will the NOPD or LA State Police even give a crap as long as the guy lives through it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure they would object if you started a fight on the floor, but I think anyone would understand you taking him "out back"

[Al_Capone_Junior]

"Verbal bets are binding" works fine in limit games. This is the age of no limit. Make them push the chips forward. Until this is the standard, the situation just won't be satisfactory.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
However, what about the Nolan Dalla chip confiscation earlier this year? I realize that there was more to this than just the casino keeping the check, but they did more than just refuse to cash it in, they confiscated it from him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure he handed it to him expecting cash for it. There is no way they shook it out of his pockets.