"buffoonery by blacks whitening NFL" article by Jason Whitlock

[vhawk01]

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Blame ESPN.
Who's the better receiver, T.O. or Marvin Harrison?
Who gets more airtime?
ESPN rewards poor behavior.

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God this thread is getting soo idiotic. People in general want to see drama and controversy which is obviously why TO gets soo much air-time. It's got nothing to do with rewarding poor behaviour (though this is kinda an unfortunate by-product), its just giving the viewing public what they want to see.

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This is a good point, its not that they reward bad behavior, they just reward outstanding behavior. And it is easier to stand out by trying to kill yourself or hitting a traffic cop with your car than by saving a bus full of burning orphans or something. When athletes (white or black) do something outlandishly positive, ESPN spends all day boring me to death with THAT crap too.

[Pudge714]

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/20...yer-and-levitt/

[NT!]

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I pretty much agree with this. I have read some of the same research as NT and what he said is true. I just can't see how that is trying to "whiten" African-Americans. If anything, it is trying to get them socially adapted to a work place. I would agree if you said there is a great emphasis to get students ready for corporate America i.e. show up, do you work, get rewarded. That is how society is and how I believe the vast majority of students should be educated.

NT ad JoA, without writing a 6,000 word post, how do you think inner-city youth should be educated or what changes would you make?

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so to summarize your point, schools treat blacks the way they do because they want them to be ready to work in corporate jobs that demand they behave a certain way. in other words, corporations set education policy by demanding a particular workplace culture.

i think this contributes to what i was saying very clearly.

what you are describing isn't just 'getting someone ready for the workplace,' or anything else. it is valuing one culture over another, saying that one thing is acceptable and another is not. children spend a huge amount of time in school - it is one of the primary ways they learn how to interact with other human beings.

when i read the post about how school is about getting people to sit down, shut up, and follow directions, i thought, "regardless of whether there is a racial element to that, why would you want to teach people that? why would that be a good thing, regardless of skin color? is it ANYONE's fault if they think that sucks?"

a school that has those types of goals is preparing someone for a workplace that has similar goals. see where this is going? if the top priority for schools is getting black kids to sit down, shut up and follow directions, what kinds of jobs are they trying to prepare them for?

this is waaaaaay tangential to the original point of the thread, but i think it is important to look at the underlying values of a system like this. sometimes the bias is hidden in plain sight.

[kidcolin]

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when i read the post about how school is about getting people to sit down, shut up, and follow directions, i thought, "regardless of whether there is a racial element to that, why would you want to teach people that? why would that be a good thing, regardless of skin color? is it ANYONE's fault if they think that sucks?"

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Not quite what I wrote, but given the rest of your agenda-laden post, it's not much of a surprise that you'd bend the meaning of my words. I said those were the basic rules of the classroom, not that the point of our education system was for us to learn those things. However, I don't see learning to be quiet and courteous when it's appropriate as such a bad thing. I'm really not sure what you're getting at here and I won't try to guess.

[blackize]

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if so are you suggesting that the fact that i am black bears no relevance b/c "at the end of the day we're all american"? i really hope not b/c that is just naive. no, it shouldn't "matter" that i'm black, but you do not need to be overly pc to the point where i cannot reference myself as being black/afro-american/etc.

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"At the end of the day we are all American" is basically my opinion on the matter.

It shouldn't matter that you are black and in reasonable circles, it doesn't matter. I don't think it is overly PC to refer to yourself as black or African-American. You aren't from Africa and I would bet that your cultural upbringing had virtually nothing in common with any African cultures or traditions.

Furthermore, what is African culture? Africa is an enormous continent with a variety of different cultures and experiences. It would make more sense for you to call yourself Sierra-Leonean-American than to overly generalize as African-American.

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i'm confident that regardless of their current location, black people can be traced back to africa.

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If you want to go this route then we're all Africans since that is where it is believed humanity originated.

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given that i am a minority, merely saying that i am "american" is not a completely accurate classification.

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This type of thinking is conducive to racism IMO. It implies that there is something different about you because of the color of your skin.

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african americans are just a subset of black people.

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If anything it is the other way around since white people also come from Africa.

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next i suppose you are going to say puerto ricans should just call themselves americans

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I don't see this as different from someone from Texas identifying as Texan or someone from Virginia identifying as Virginian.

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same for american indians, i mean if you were born here you are an american right?

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Native Americans don't refer to themselves as Indian so this example is invalid. Being part Cherokee, I can safely say that they don't identify themselves in overly general historic terms like African Americans or Native Americans but rather as a part of their specific tribe or don't make a distinction at all.

Our goal should be that all members of society be treated the same regardless of race or religion. Focusing on historical mistreatments certainly does not help us move forward IMO.

[blackize]

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I'm really not sure what you're getting at here and I won't try to guess.

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I think his post is saying a few things.

1) That corporate America dictates the needs of our education system. Since corporate America is white it demands white culture be taught in schools.

Edit: I don't think this is worded well, but I think the idea is clear enough.

2) That we shouldn't be teaching people to shut up and follow directions. We should be teaching them to think for themselves.

[kidcolin]

right, so:

1. except it doesn't. Not by a long shot. If anything, corporate america is increasingly disappointed in public education.
2. Again, never said that, and that's not what our actual education system does. I was a bit of a 'question authority' kid throughout my education years, but still managed to learn a lot.

[NT!]

colin,

looking back on your post i think you are right. i was conflating your post with my own experience in urban schools, which is in fact that they often do emphasize sit down, shut up etc. above almost all else. part of that is that they are often so crowded, troubled and understaffed that they can't even accomplish this relatively simple task.

i have my own beliefs about the schools, but they are not agenda driven. i haven't proposed much because i don't have many good ideas about the school system. i have very little agenda because i'm really not sure how to solve the problem. i'm just talking about existing research and my own experiences. i am certainly not trying to bend your words.

what you originally said was that you don't see how asking people to follow basic rules is enforcing whiteness, is that about right? (and i don't think being able to behave appropriately is a bad thing... however i think good classroom manners are needed not as an end, but as a means to teach children critical thinking and writing skills, etc, which is not what is happening). i guess in short, my response is, if that's ALL you do (or are able to do), it says a lot about what you expect of your students.

[NT!]

btw blackize you are grossly oversimplifying things and i don't think you really grasp the issue at all. corporations set education policy on a broad scale that has more to do with class than race. the fact that race enters the discussion is due to the fact that the two are still intertwined in american society.

[kidcolin]

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what you originally said was that you don't see how asking people to follow basic rules is enforcing whiteness, is that about right?

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that's a fair interpretation, yes.

Your first paragraph states a good point. In dense urban areas where funding is short and classes are overcrowded, just getting the kids to pay attention can become such a large part of a teacher's focus.

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and i don't think being able to behave appropriately is a bad thing... however i think good classroom manners are needed not as an end, but as a means to teach children critical thinking and writing skills, etc, which is not what is happening

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That's basically my feelings as well. You can't expect anyone to learn jack if a teacher can't get a few minutes of undivided attention. And I don't see how teaching four function math and basic writing skills can be a white culture thing.

edit: And I think "white culture" is a very lazy and potentially dangerous term to use.