NL Ruling Please

InTheDark · #1 10-12-2007, 08:45 AM

$2-5 NL. Player A raises to $40, I raise to what I assume is his stack, $140. All fold to A who sez 'call' but doesn't move any chips. Turns out his stack is $155 total but the dealer has already brought the turn and river. The board is 5 4 3 5 3 rainbow and I hold KK. I want his last $15 since I'm quite sure he has AQ, as he stated, but not at the risk of any new board cards. I STFU and the dealer pushes me the pot, leaving him with $15.

I've got 20 years of casino poker under my belt and I have not a clue how a floorman might rule here. I'm pretty sure I made the right play, EV wise. Any ideas?

Khabbi · #2 10-12-2007, 09:19 AM

The turn and river would have to be returned to the stub and shuffled in. Then you could put him all-in for his last $15 and the turn and river are re-dealt.

mrkilla · #3 10-12-2007, 09:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
$2-5 NL. Player A raises to $40, I raise to what I assume is his stack, $140. All fold to A who sez 'call' but doesn't move any chips. Turns out his stack is $155 total but the dealer has already brought the turn and river. The board is 5 4 3 5 3 rainbow and I hold KK. I want his last $15 since I'm quite sure he has AQ, as he stated, but not at the risk of any new board cards. I STFU and the dealer pushes me the pot, leaving him with $15.

I've got 20 years of casino poker under my belt and I have not a clue how a floorman might rule here. I'm pretty sure I made the right play, EV wise. Any ideas?

[/ QUOTE ]

In your 20 years have you not learn to call your self all in or at least say " I put him all in"? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Floor would probably rule to redeal turn/river

Jauron · #4 10-12-2007, 10:34 AM

They'd have to redeal turn and river to get the last $15 in.

RR · #5 10-12-2007, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The turn and river would have to be returned to the stub and shuffled in. Then you could put him all-in for his last $15 and the turn and river are re-dealt.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. The dealer thought he was all-in, you thought he was all-in. He is all-in. When he stated "call" without moving the chips he probably thought he was all-in.

bav · #6 10-12-2007, 03:26 PM

What a wonderful new angle. When someone bets $200 at me thinking that covers me, but I find I actually have $201, I can let the dealer put out a turn and river and if I don't like the result just proclaim "I wasn't all in and I didn't get to bet the turn or river" and demand new cards.

InTheDark · #7 10-12-2007, 07:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$2-5 NL. Player A raises to $40, I raise to what I assume is his stack, $140. All fold to A who sez 'call' but doesn't move any chips. Turns out his stack is $155 total but the dealer has already brought the turn and river. The board is 5 4 3 5 3 rainbow and I hold KK. I want his last $15 since I'm quite sure he has AQ, as he stated, but not at the risk of any new board cards. I STFU and the dealer pushes me the pot, leaving him with $15.

I've got 20 years of casino poker under my belt and I have not a clue how a floorman might rule here. I'm pretty sure I made the right play, EV wise. Any ideas?

[/ QUOTE ]

In your 20 years have you not learn to call your self all in or at least say " I put him all in"? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Floor would probably rule to redeal turn/river

[/ QUOTE ]

There were other players between us when I bet his assumed stack. But you're so damn smart I'm sure you've figured that out by now.

xxrod17xx · #8 10-14-2007, 05:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$2-5 NL. Player A raises to $40, I raise to what I assume is his stack, $140. All fold to A who sez 'call' but doesn't move any chips. Turns out his stack is $155 total but the dealer has already brought the turn and river. The board is 5 4 3 5 3 rainbow and I hold KK. I want his last $15 since I'm quite sure he has AQ, as he stated, but not at the risk of any new board cards. I STFU and the dealer pushes me the pot, leaving him with $15.

I've got 20 years of casino poker under my belt and I have not a clue how a floorman might rule here. I'm pretty sure I made the right play, EV wise. Any ideas?

[/ QUOTE ]

In your 20 years have you not learn to call your self all in or at least say " I put him all in"? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Floor would probably rule to redeal turn/river

[/ QUOTE ]

There were other players between us when I bet his assumed stack. But you're so damn smart I'm sure you've figured that out by now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he made a valid point that betting what you think he has left is going to put you in this situation often, when saying I put HIM all in will make your bet $155.

bav · #9 10-15-2007, 04:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think he made a valid point that betting what you think he has left is going to put you in this situation often, when saying I put HIM all in will make your bet $155.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but you see, the pedantists(*) insist you cannot put someone else all-in, you can only put yourself all-in. So in this case you have to ask for the stacks to be counted to the dollar so you can wager exactly the correct amount. See recent thread activity here for this debate. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(*) Yes, it seems I just made up this word. What's the noun form of pedantic? This obviously SHOULD be a word.

psandman · #10 10-15-2007, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ah, but you see, the pedantists(*) insist you cannot put someone else all-in, you can only put yourself all-in. So in this case you have to ask for the stacks to be counted to the dollar so you can wager exactly the correct amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't have a problem with a player saying "I bet as many chips as Player X has" which would eliminate the need for a count request. But I think its incumbent upon the better to make his intentions as clear as possible.