Another Obnoxious Post About The Math Knowledgeable and/orTalented

[PairTheBoard]

I generally agree with what you're saying and I too am interested in how to make the most persuasive case for it. I've never really bought the 3ish arguments about lack of social skills except in the most extreme examples. I think you can find the same kind of extreme examples in most all fields. There are such extreme examples among great Artists, Writers, Actors, Musicians, Poets, Mystics, and Billionaire Business People. Social ineptness is not that hard to find once you look for it.

However, this view can be taken too far. For example, it would be a Fallacy to conclude that the Math-Science skilled would automatically be able to give expert opinions in Fields which they Have Not Studied in depth. Furthermore, not All Principles involved in other fields of study relate well to Math-Science concepts. A Math-Science Expert whose thinking is so dominated by concepts of Math-Science that he cannot adapt his thinking to Principles Foreign to Math-Science may actually be at a disadvantage when attempting study in the Field governed by such Principles.

For example in the Field of Art, what are the Principles that govern opinions on a good work of Art? What Principles are applied by the great Actor? Or Poet? Or Mystic? While some math-science concepts might be brought into play in these fields, they are not the Fundamental Ones which govern the field. A Math-Science expert who cannot adapt his thinking to these Principles will never be able to give expert opinions in the Field no matter how much he tries to apply his Math-Science expertise. Math-Science allows us to do many things well. But it is not enough to do All things well.

Matters can be even worse for the Math-Science Sophomore. He may not only fail to adapt his thinking to Principles that Govern other fields but he may make Sophomoric attempts to apply Math-Science concepts to them. He has studied enough Math-Science to know how powerful and important it is, but he does not have the in depth knowledge to realize its limitations.

This is worse than just being limited by his Math-Science Myopia in grasping the Foreign Principles of alien Fields. He will end up butchering his study of the Field with Sophomoric Math-Science Misapplications. His analogue in 2+2 land would be the guy who can never learn to be a good poker player because he just has a hunch that This Time 2-7 offset is going to flop a full house. Not only does he not learn probability but he misapplies his intuition. The same kind of thing happens when the Sophmoric Math-Science Myope fails to grasp the Principles of an Alien Field and then compounds his shortcoming by misapplying Math-Science to it.

PairTheBoard

[m_the0ry]

Either way it's an investment. You can either read all the diaries of Euler and Fourier on your own time or spend a truckload of money on a degree. Doesn't matter what path you take to get there you end up in the same place - math is hard, which gives it scarcity, which gives it value.

[SNOWBALL]

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For every high school student exclaiming 'when will I ever use this stupid math?!' there are dozens of scientists, businessmen and engineers who apply it daily.

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your ratios are off. Do you see why?

[SNOWBALL]

my dad is a lawyer, and he says he uses algebra pretty often.

[David Sklansky]

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2. There is a strong psychological need to believe I am wrong among those who are either too lazy or untalented to learn the stuff that needs to be learned in order to apply it to these endeavors.


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Have you ever directly told us how to go about learning "the stuff that needs to be learned"? It seems to me you do that piecemeal, but why not outline a systematic approach?

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The specific stuff that needs to be learned is logic, (syllogisms, fallacies, truth tables) probability, including permutations and combinations and basic statistics, and some algebra, especially turning word problems into equations. Calculus, physics, and similar things are very good things to learn as well but for most people only because it helps train the brain.

[kerowo]

The American Myth is that anyone can acheive anything through hard work and determination. It's not that Smart People Get Ahead. This was so ingrained in the culture that they used to write articles about how weird it was that Microsoft's hiring process was designed to get smart people. It doesn't help that Bill Gates is America's Nerd, but for every statement of how smart he is there are three about what a kook he is. America doesn't like smarts.

[jogger08152]

You're right about the importance of math in other fields. Please, preach this gospel elsewhere too - on here is fine, but this idea needs exposure among people other than those inclined to read a science, math and philosophy forum on the internet. Is there any way you could use your wealth and/or fame to get the message out?

The good that could be done by having a ready, and lengthy, answer to the question, "When am I ever going to need this as an adult?" is almost beyond imagining. Prove to an 8-year-old that math really is practical, and there's a decent chance you've just meaningfully improved his whole life.

[AWoodside]

Not quite on topic, and most of you guys probably already know about this, but check this website that MIT has if you're interested in learning some math on your own. MIT is in the middle of a huge project where they are putting up tons of course-material online. Lecture videos, notes, homework assignments, etc. A lot of it is extremely well done IMO, especially when you consider it's free and available to anyone.

If you've never studied higher level math before it might be good to wikipedia or google notation a bit, because as far as I can tell a lot of the basics in abstract math are assumed in these courses, but once you get past that hurdle there is a huge wealth of information at this site.

[uDevil]

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The specific stuff that needs to be learned is logic, (syllogisms, fallacies, truth tables) probability, including permutations and combinations and basic statistics, and some algebra, especially turning word problems into equations. Calculus, physics, and similar things are very good things to learn as well but for most people only because it helps train the brain.

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Thank you.

So if you can solve any problem that might show up on the math and analytical reasoning portions of the ACT/SAT/GRE then you have learned "the stuff that needs to be learned"? I can do that and calculus and physics and some other stuff and still feel inadequate.

[soon2bepro]

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2. There is a strong psychological need to believe I am wrong among those who are either too lazy or untalented to learn the stuff that needs to be learned in order to apply it to these endeavors.

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This is it, mostly. 1) is just an excuse they use, and they know it. 3) May play a factor in those people who are greatly challenged in logical/statistical thinking, but not the rest.