Learning Omaha is brutal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ribbo]

You're horrible with advice, please stop posting misinformation.

[Jurrr]

Shove flop every time.

[glass_onion]

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There are spots where check-calling, bet-folding and check-folding might be warranted but this definitely isn't one of them.

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Just trying to reason some of this out, give some thoughts:

Shortstacker checks, Hero bets $23 with top set, Villian 1 raises to $92, Shortstacker calls, Hero ? (calls right?)

This is an easy push since shortstacker will always call, even if villian 1 has st8 its ok, and ranges can easily be wide since you are PFR.

Rempel mentioned that C/Calling and C/folding could sometimes be correct. I'm trying to think of when these could be right.

Assuming deep stacks and you bet, immeadiately raised by nitty player, shortstack folds, I could see calling in position as his range is 95% st8's here. Even then, you'd almost have to have a specific read that either he
A) would payoff something if the board pairs, i.e. is a call monkey, or
b) would be easily bluffed off a his hand when higher st8, runner runner flushes apear, etc.

I think without a or b, I don't see how calling is profitiable even here since he will be firing turns nearly every time and you should be folding without implied.

With shorter stacks you'd be 50/50 flop, getting pot odds for a turn call 75/25, so that's your c/f assuming shory got out of the way.

I also don't see a c/c being right agaisnt someone at your table whom you are targeting because they are LAG or donkish. With our without shorty, you are eitehr slightly behind or crushing his range, so pushing is better since you don't want him drawing to or bluffing scare cards.

I'm having a very tough time finding any circumstance here where c/c flop is right, assuming TAG/LAG, short/big stacks, short 3rd opponent or not, in/out of position.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Ribbo]

Basically if the flop is unraised preflop, sure check call followed by a check fold on the turn. Very few people will pot bet a small pot with nothing, no point trying to steal a 3 bb pot really is there?. But because the pot became juicy, people loosen what they need to continue.

[TheRempel]

When I referred to spots where check-folding or check-calling the flop could be correct I wasn't referring to this hand as played preflop. There is no other line then bet/push given the circumstances and stack sizes.

[MadScientist]

[ QUOTE ]
Basically if the flop is unraised preflop, sure check call followed by a check fold on the turn. Very few people will pot bet a small pot with nothing, no point trying to steal a 3 bb pot really is there?. But because the pot became juicy, people loosen what they need to continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

If more had gone into the pot pf or if stacks were shorter, then I would be all for leading flop which would lead to getting it all in there if reraised.
The line taken is ok, but I don't think it makes as much money as check calling. OP shouldn't be raised KJ99 up oop, imo, and this is why.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Basically if the flop is unraised preflop, sure check call followed by a check fold on the turn. Very few people will pot bet a small pot with nothing, no point trying to steal a 3 bb pot really is there?. But because the pot became juicy, people loosen what they need to continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

If more had gone into the pot pf or if stacks were shorter, then I would be all for leading flop which would lead to getting it all in there if reraised.
The line taken is ok, but I don't think it makes as much money as check calling. OP shouldn't be raised KJ99 up oop, imo, and this is why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Original poster SHOULD be raising KJ99 in a 4 handed game outside of the blinds.

[runningirl07]

Wow, thanks for all the responses! So I just called his reraise on the flop. The turn came a 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , bb pushed for $24 more, Hero called and Villian 1 pushed me in for $75 more. Obviously I had to call I think but Villian 1 had the nut straight (8,6) and the BB had 7,5 for 2 pair. I figured I was ahead of the BB, but was pretty sure in the hand that Villian 1 had the straight. I don't know enough about Villian 1 but I know he's not super nitty or anything.

[Macbeth]

I tend to agree with Ribbo, on the other hand you want to consider the stack sizes of you and the villain. On a three way pot you have atleast 35% EV which makes a push easy if all stack were of equal sizes. Also taking into consideration that the villain might not have a made hand or perhaps even mid set then for stack size up to perhaps $200 pushing is clearly the right solution.

On the other hand with deeper stacks it gets more complicated. Should you push with $400 then the small stack does not matter and you would probably not be called by a mid set so if called you are probably behind.