DERB

[flub]

I'd say the chances of him colluding are very low. He's not raising anyone out of pots with a partner because nearly every pot is 2 handed on the turn and the party 30/60 community would notice this very fast since there are only 6 tables. Everyone just plays together too much to get away with that.

He really just goes to war on the turn. He'll check behind a ton of rivers.

Also, so people know, W$WSF is around 10% higher for people in the 30/60 game since less people see each flop.

Lastly, I have a bit over 30k hands with him and he's about a 1.8 BB/100 winner on it. He's gonna have to run real good to get it up to 3.

Very lastly, I think socuties knows him or has at least spoken with him and undoubtably knows more about him then me. If anyone knows if he posts to 2+2 have him chime in.

-f

[BradL]

[ QUOTE ]
He's not raising anyone out of pots with a partner because nearly every pot is 2 handed on the turn and the party 30/60 community would notice this very fast since there are only 6 tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently this is not how teams collude. See my other post in this thread for a link to articles on this topic.

-Brad

[flub]

[ QUOTE ]

Apparently this is not how teams collude. See my other post in this thread for a link to articles on this topic.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, good teams collude by denying others proper odds through folding when teammate is ahead. But him playing 30% of hands doesn't fit with that. Also I was more specifically replying to someone who thought he might be pumping it with a partner.

-f

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently this is not how teams collude. See my other post in this thread for a link to articles on this topic.

-Brad


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, well I really don't know what a "proper" colluding team does, but if this is the case then never mind what I was saying.

Is a close to 50% folding to river bet very high in that game, or do people not bluff as much on the end? that still seemed to me like the strangest of his stats, esp combined with a high went to showdown, and a low wonSD% when called river bet. Maybe these are just the types of numbers that are normal with that high a VPIP and aggression levels though, i don't know?

anyways, you guys are probably right about how it woudl be tough to cheat in a game like that with so many "regulars". At the same time it would be tougher for Party to prove too much, since being at the same table with certain players all the time doesn't prove anything with only 6 games going. esp if you had several different accounts on different skins and switched off between them, it woudln't be that hard for a sophisticated colluder to slip under the radar i would think.

I do aggree with others that he's probably just running REALLY, REALLY hot, but just out of curiousity, what type of PT numbers would one have if they were colluding with other players?

[hogger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently this is not how teams collude. See my other post in this thread for a link to articles on this topic.

-Brad


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, well I really don't know what a "proper" colluding team does, but if this is the case then never mind what I was saying.

Is a close to 50% folding to river bet very high in that game, or do people not bluff as much on the end? that still seemed to me like the strangest of his stats, esp combined with a high went to showdown, and a low wonSD% when called river bet. Maybe these are just the types of numbers that are normal with that high a VPIP and aggression levels though, i don't know?

anyways, you guys are probably right about how it woudl be tough to cheat in a game like that with so many "regulars". At the same time it would be tougher for Party to prove too much, since being at the same table with certain players all the time doesn't prove anything with only 6 games going. esp if you had several different accounts on different skins and switched off between them, it woudln't be that hard for a sophisticated colluder to slip under the radar i would think.

I do aggree with others that he's probably just running REALLY, REALLY hot, but just out of curiousity, what type of PT numbers would one have if they were colluding with other players?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I could see 2 others hands I wouldn't need to collude in the traditional way! I would always be a couple of seats closer to the button then everyone else.
If I am in the hijack seat and I am colluding with the button and SB I would have a huge advantage with my starting requirements which would result in very high Preflop #'s. I could basically start allot looser then everyone else with a huge advantage. I would appear to be a cannon b/c of my starting requirements but basically I would be 2 spots better then it appears.
This would be the perfect way to collude in a tight game like 30-60 Party.
Hogger

[YoureToast]

I've noticed that playing opponents in this VPIP range is very difficult because, unlike your typical 2+2 TAG, I have trouble putting them on hands. I will have to check but I recall checking some 15/30 stats a while back and while most players with a >25 vpip are losers, some of the biggest winners were between 28 and 35. By contrast, supertights (<18) were sometime good winners and sometime slight losers (never big losers). I firmly believe that your avg player (like me) cannot win with such a high VPIP, but I also believe that it is more likely that the best player in the world has a much higher vpip than the typical 2+2er.

[brick]

very good point.
also, two 2+2ers say that they have 75k + hands on him and these aren't likely ALL the exact sames hands in both databases. if the overlap is 75% then he is winning his "streak" is more like 100k + hands.

[TimM]

If he were colluding with one or two others, wouldn't there be one or two others whose stats also stick out like a sore thumb in that game?

[hogger]

Not if you were smart about it!
Or maybe the most likely scenario he has hacked into a few players computers and can see their hole cards and he doesn't extract extra bets when he is in a hand with them to go undetected but does improve his position tons when they do not have a hand.
All I am saying is his stats and winrate are what I would expect if I could see 1 or 2 hands that act after me in a tight game!
Improving my position every round by a notch would be huge!

[hogger]

[ QUOTE ]
very good point.
also, two 2+2ers say that they have 75k + hands on him and these aren't likely ALL the exact sames hands in both databases. if the overlap is 75% then he is winning his "streak" is more like 100k + hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe even more hands