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  #1  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:29 AM
Captain R Captain R is offline
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Default Straddling before the cards are dealt

Bay101 20/40:

SB posts, BB posts her blind and says "we chop, we chop!" because Bay101 only drops $1 if folded to the blinds and they chop (instead of the normal $5 drop).

I jokingly stick out a live straddle when she says this and then take it back before the dealer deals the cards.

As I take it back, another player says it has to stay because it was my action (even though the cards haven't been dealt).

Floorman is called over and he says I technically have to leave it out, but he lets me take it back because 8/9 players agree I was only joking. It's not clear to me if he understands that I took the chips back before the cards are dealt.

Did floorman make the right call? Do I technically have to leave the live straddle out?
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:36 AM
Dante1126 Dante1126 is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

Not 100% sure, but my thinking on this would be that the blinds should be posted before the cards fly and at that time a straddle could also be legally posted. Since the action is legal at that point then doing it even jokingly would be a binding action like all others. However, if you weren't clear on it and players agreed that it was just a joke action then I think it was right of the floor to let you take it back.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:49 AM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

[ QUOTE ]


Floorman is called over and he says I technically have to leave it out, but he lets me take it back because 8/9 players agree I was only joking. It's not clear to me if he understands that I took the chips back before the cards are dealt.



[/ QUOTE ]

Most really stupid floor decisions happen when the floor does not fully understand the situation.

As long as no cards had been dealt, you can take the straddle out.

Say you post your BB in turn, but before the dealer starts you decide to sit out and tell the dealer to deal you out? You are not required to leave the BB in.
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2007, 06:15 AM
Dromar Dromar is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

Posting the straddle before the cards are dealt is standard where I live, but you always have the option to take the straddle back before the cards are dealt.

I think the floorman handled it well. But as mentioned, it would have been an easy ruling in your favor had you mentioned that your straddle was gone before the cards were dealt.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2007, 09:37 AM
flytrap flytrap is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

[ QUOTE ]
Bay101 20/40:

because Bay101 only drops $1 if folded to the blinds and they chop (instead of the normal $5 drop).



[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, if they are raking a chop then you're getting screwed. I haven't played in places like vegas or SoCal, but in Detroit, Kansas City, and Minneapolis, you get to keep the whole blind on a chop. Is raking a chop normal in vegas and SoCal?
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2007, 11:10 AM
bav bav is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

I had exactly this debate with someone when the topic of re-straddles came up. Restraddles aren't allowed anywhere I know of in Vegas, but folks were debating their merits and I asked "so if I straddle, I'm gonna be kinda ticked if you re-straddle and take away my last action, so I'd just pull back my straddle." Folks tried to tell me I couldn't do that--that once it is put out there I'm bound to it. Yet when I asked why the straddle should be treated differently than the blinds, where you can ALWAYS pick up and leave if you change your mind about playing the hand prior to the cards starting, they had no answer.

Basically folks just fire with their opinions first and think later. IMHO, OF COURSE you can take back your straddle before the cards are in the air. If I start to straddle, and then 4 people pick up and leave, or 4 new players show up, or the lone fish at the table walks off, the conditions have changed and I'm gonna re-evaluate. You think I can't put a wager on the blackjack table, and then rethink it prior to the cards going into the air?

As for raking a chop, California poker is different than most anywhere else. No, they do not rake a chopped pot in Vegas. And most (but not all) have a "no flop, no drop" policy. California poker rooms are greedy bastages.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:09 PM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

flytrap - as bav mentioned, California appears to do it differently than almost anywhere. Not only do they rake $1 for a chop, I've read that they also rake the full $4 or $5 or whatever it is if you see a flop.
So if just 2 players go to the flop in a 3/6 game or something and there are only $6 in there then they STILL are going to rake $4 or $5 of it I believe.

Some of that is state law somehow I think.



Bav - I think that once someone restraddles you that also should qualify as the end of your privliege to pull back your straddle.
But then what happens if the game is slowed up because of a dealer change or a fouled deck or something and suddenly 4 players decide to get up and leave and then I want to take back by straddle which obviously impacts the re-straddle guy?
I really don't know but would have to think this would be allowed. Like many rulings in poker I think it just depends.

I think the start of a deal is usually considered to be a realistic cut-off point but then if someone re-straddles you and the game is about to start then you are stuck with it. In this instance your straddle practically counts as 'action' and you can't take it back just because you see that somebody is going to re-straddle.

So with the delay in the game you get a 'reset' in that part of the action perhaps but if nothing changes and there is no delay you lose your ability to take back the straddle after someone restraddles.
Obviously I'm making things up here as I have never seen this happen but I'm just trying to find a logical solution and how I think it SHOULD be done.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:12 PM
Small Fry Small Fry is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

[ QUOTE ]
I had exactly this debate with someone when the topic of re-straddles came up. Restraddles aren't allowed anywhere I know of in Vegas, but folks were debating their merits and I asked "so if I straddle, I'm gonna be kinda ticked if you re-straddle and take away my last action, so I'd just pull back my straddle." Folks tried to tell me I couldn't do that--that once it is put out there I'm bound to it. Yet when I asked why the straddle should be treated differently than the blinds, where you can ALWAYS pick up and leave if you change your mind about playing the hand prior to the cards starting, they had no answer.

Basically folks just fire with their opinions first and think later. IMHO, OF COURSE you can take back your straddle before the cards are in the air. If I start to straddle, and then 4 people pick up and leave, or 4 new players show up, or the lone fish at the table walks off, the conditions have changed and I'm gonna re-evaluate. You think I can't put a wager on the blackjack table, and then rethink it prior to the cards going into the air?

As for raking a chop, California poker is different than most anywhere else. No, they do not rake a chopped pot in Vegas. And most (but not all) have a "no flop, no drop" policy. California poker rooms are greedy bastages.

[/ QUOTE ]

A little O/T but say a card room only allows a straddle from UTG, but then allows a re-straddles. Before cards come out UTG pulls back his straddle. Does this now nullify the re-straddle too? My thinking is it does.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:43 PM
pfapfap pfapfap is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

It's not a "rake", it's a "drop". We're not allowed to have an interest in the size of the pot.

Some rooms in the Bay Area still only have $4 drop, and still only if there's a flop.
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2007, 03:09 PM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Straddling before the cards are dealt

It is my understanding that once the dealer starts to shuffle the hand has started. That might matter.
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