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#41
11-17-2007, 08:18 AM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
Is there automatically a group of rich samitarians that will take care of those people? [/ QUOTE ] No. Each individual will take care of these people in a way that she or he thinks is most effective within the bounds of societal norms. The market will offer protection from these sociopaths and the most effective solutions will stay in business while the others will disappear. Right now, the government is forcing you to use the police (=solution X) to take care of the problem of having crazy people who try to hurt you in this society. But the police is a pretty bad solution. If they had some competition, they would be forced to find ways to take better care of their customers while cutting costs in order to lower the price of their service. Like any other market. 
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#42
11-17-2007, 09:31 AM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
So let's recap. I make a joke about ACers' feelings for AC being similar to a horny teenager's feelings of sex (ha ha good one!), [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I didn't really see why that joke/comparison was either relevant or funny. [ QUOTE ] you (annoyingly, and wrongly) decide to respond to it with an odd suggestion that ACism is based on "ideals." [/ QUOTE ] Why is it annoying and wrong to respond with a more relevant (and funnier, I'd say) comparison? Sheesh, this is a message board, isn't it? [ QUOTE ] I state my disagreement, and that's therefore dogmatic? [/ QUOTE ] The dogmatism is that you failed to see the point I was making and instead provided a diatribe about why the state is more "idealistic" than ACism. [ QUOTE ] I think it's pretty obvious that statism's practices are of an idealistic mindset. ... [/ QUOTE ] And here you go again on same diatribe. The point was related to the fact that many ACists say they won't vote or run for office because both the candidates and the system are flawed. Many libertarians acknowledge that but try to work within the system anyway (including that hero of many ACists, Ron Paul). That was the point. It's really useless to go on about "statists are more ideal". First off, it's a very debatable and wholly subjective point. Second, there are thousands and thousands of libertarians and others who acknowledge the flaws of the systems and are trying to change it, comprising some of their ideals in practice. Thirdly (and quite obviously), the state exists in practice not just theory or historical reference. FWIW I am an anarchist myself. I am proud to say I am idealistic. I am also practical enough to understand that the system won't just go away on its own. Your defensiveness regarding your dogma and refusal to budge at all when the least bit of criticism arises is quite typical of those with your religious fervor for ACism. It is at least somewhat encouraging that many of said ACists who used to berate me and other minarchist scum for promoting libertarian politics in practice are now leading the charge to elect none other than a major 2-party candidate and sitting Congressman who is far less radical than myself or some other libertarians. I think I'd rather burn the Capitol than work in it. But I still will vote for Ron Paul and accept his less than perfect platform as a step in the right direction. I guess that makes me a filthy statist idealist [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ...
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#43
11-17-2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
The dogmatism is that you failed to see the point I was making and instead provided a diatribe about why the state is more "idealistic" than ACism. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. So you speak the truth and anyone who disagrees = dogmatic. From my perspective aren't YOU the one being dogmatic? Can't we just have a discussion, where we can either agree or disagree about X, Y, or Z without declaring anything we disagree with as "dogmatic"? [ QUOTE ] The point was related to the fact that many ACists say they won't vote or run for office because both the candidates and the system are flawed. Many libertarians acknowledge that but try to work within the system anyway (including that hero of many ACists, Ron Paul). That was the point. [/ QUOTE ] OK? Lol. THAT was your point? Why didn't you just try to make that point rather than reply to some irrelevant joke in a way that left me with no idea what you were trying to say. And this is what I mean when I say posts like this are lame. You reply to me, but your point has nothing to do with anything I (anyone?) have said in this thread (or even, at all, since I, like most of the ACers here, am registered to vote and do plan to vote for Ron Paul). But you just waltz in here and make some odd attack against a general mindset in standard dickheaded fashion. FWIW, I haven't been a full blown ACist for all that long. I was a Ron Paul supporter first, and still very much am, and will probably put more reflection into what my thoughts are of working within the system after the election. So you really are barking up the wrong tree. [ QUOTE ] Your defensiveness regarding your dogma and refusal to budge at all when the least bit of criticism arises is quite typical of those with your religious fervor for ACism. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't mean to come off as defensive at all. My tone was mostly confused as to what you thought you were accomplishing, and explaining (quite thoroughly and accurately) why I didn't think anything I said was dogmatic. Maybe you should consider that I refuse to budge because your criticisms are misguided, and there is therefore no reason to budge.
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#44
11-17-2007, 02:40 PM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
Certainly the "movement" is extremely small and will only grow. As you guys said, 98%+ of people think "anarchy = chaos/Hell". I think there is definitely some relationship with atheism. I'd be willing to bet that ACists are disproportionately atheists, and also the other way around a little bit, although most atheists are of course still in the high 90%'s regarding fear of anarchy. The relationship probably stems from intelligence, free thinking and anti-establishment leanings. I'm an anarchist but not necessarily a full anarcho-capitalist. I have problems with some aspects of how people say AC would work (one major example I can think of is something that was said here a while back about vaccines and how people who caught a disease from an unvaccinated person could then sue that person, which is [censored] retarded). I'm very anti-organized religion, but not quite atheist. I am currently reading Dawkins's "The God Delusion" to see if this can be remedied. [/ QUOTE ] ACists cannot be atheists. They believe religously in the omnipotence of the free market, as zealously as catholics do in the old man in the sky. There is evidence that their faith is unfounded, while you can't prove there is no god, yet they cling to their faith. Different god, same fallacies.
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#45
11-17-2007, 02:44 PM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Certainly the "movement" is extremely small and will only grow. As you guys said, 98%+ of people think "anarchy = chaos/Hell". I think there is definitely some relationship with atheism. I'd be willing to bet that ACists are disproportionately atheists, and also the other way around a little bit, although most atheists are of course still in the high 90%'s regarding fear of anarchy. The relationship probably stems from intelligence, free thinking and anti-establishment leanings. I'm an anarchist but not necessarily a full anarcho-capitalist. I have problems with some aspects of how people say AC would work (one major example I can think of is something that was said here a while back about vaccines and how people who caught a disease from an unvaccinated person could then sue that person, which is [censored] retarded). I'm very anti-organized religion, but not quite atheist. I am currently reading Dawkins's "The God Delusion" to see if this can be remedied. [/ QUOTE ] ACists cannot be atheists. They believe religously in the omnipotence of the free market, as zealously as catholics do in the old man in the sky. There is evidence that their faith is unfounded, while you can't prove there is no god, yet they cling to their faith. Different god, same fallacies. [/ QUOTE ] Well I'm an ACist and I don't believe that the market is omnipotent.
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#46
11-17-2007, 02:48 PM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Certainly the "movement" is extremely small and will only grow. As you guys said, 98%+ of people think "anarchy = chaos/Hell". I think there is definitely some relationship with atheism. I'd be willing to bet that ACists are disproportionately atheists, and also the other way around a little bit, although most atheists are of course still in the high 90%'s regarding fear of anarchy. The relationship probably stems from intelligence, free thinking and anti-establishment leanings. I'm an anarchist but not necessarily a full anarcho-capitalist. I have problems with some aspects of how people say AC would work (one major example I can think of is something that was said here a while back about vaccines and how people who caught a disease from an unvaccinated person could then sue that person, which is [censored] retarded). I'm very anti-organized religion, but not quite atheist. I am currently reading Dawkins's "The God Delusion" to see if this can be remedied. [/ QUOTE ] ACists cannot be atheists. They believe religously in the omnipotence of the free market, as zealously as catholics do in the old man in the sky. There is evidence that their faith is unfounded, while you can't prove there is no god, yet they cling to their faith. Different god, same fallacies. [/ QUOTE ] Well I'm an ACist and I don't believe that the market is omnipotent. [/ QUOTE ] Then you're not devout.
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#47
11-17-2007, 02:51 PM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
Well I'm an ACist and I don't believe that the market is omnipotent. [/ QUOTE ] You mean because you think a free market will work better than centralized planning you don't necessarily believe your side is omnipotent and perfect!?!?! WHOA. I actually have to take two deep breaths and think about that for a moment. ENLIGHTENING.
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#48
11-17-2007, 02:51 PM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Certainly the "movement" is extremely small and will only grow. As you guys said, 98%+ of people think "anarchy = chaos/Hell". I think there is definitely some relationship with atheism. I'd be willing to bet that ACists are disproportionately atheists, and also the other way around a little bit, although most atheists are of course still in the high 90%'s regarding fear of anarchy. The relationship probably stems from intelligence, free thinking and anti-establishment leanings. I'm an anarchist but not necessarily a full anarcho-capitalist. I have problems with some aspects of how people say AC would work (one major example I can think of is something that was said here a while back about vaccines and how people who caught a disease from an unvaccinated person could then sue that person, which is [censored] retarded). I'm very anti-organized religion, but not quite atheist. I am currently reading Dawkins's "The God Delusion" to see if this can be remedied. [/ QUOTE ] ACists cannot be atheists. They believe religously in the omnipotence of the free market, as zealously as catholics do in the old man in the sky. There is evidence that their faith is unfounded, while you can't prove there is no god, yet they cling to their faith. Different god, same fallacies. [/ QUOTE ] Well I'm an ACist and I don't believe that the market is omnipotent. [/ QUOTE ] Then you're not devout. [/ QUOTE ] So you retract your previous statement?
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#50
11-17-2007, 03:20 PM
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Re: AC in America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Certainly the "movement" is extremely small and will only grow. As you guys said, 98%+ of people think "anarchy = chaos/Hell". I think there is definitely some relationship with atheism. I'd be willing to bet that ACists are disproportionately atheists, and also the other way around a little bit, although most atheists are of course still in the high 90%'s regarding fear of anarchy. The relationship probably stems from intelligence, free thinking and anti-establishment leanings. I'm an anarchist but not necessarily a full anarcho-capitalist. I have problems with some aspects of how people say AC would work (one major example I can think of is something that was said here a while back about vaccines and how people who caught a disease from an unvaccinated person could then sue that person, which is [censored] retarded). I'm very anti-organized religion, but not quite atheist. I am currently reading Dawkins's "The God Delusion" to see if this can be remedied. [/ QUOTE ] ACists cannot be atheists. They believe religously in the omnipotence of the free market, as zealously as catholics do in the old man in the sky. There is evidence that their faith is unfounded, while you can't prove there is no god, yet they cling to their faith. Different god, same fallacies. [/ QUOTE ] Well I'm an ACist and I don't believe that the market is omnipotent. [/ QUOTE ] Then you're not devout. [/ QUOTE ] So you retract your previous statement? [/ QUOTE ] Uhhhh no, why would saying youre not a devout ACist be a retraction?
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