4567 in position - linecheck

[roggles]

I'm expecting this hand is 100 % standard (except I'm saddened villain's range is wide enough to fold the flop), but I would like a linecheck since this is a type of hand I don't like playing. Does the fact that I'm way too short make the preflop call worse?

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $266.95
UTG+1: $151.25
CO: $53
roggles: $66.15
SB: $19
BB: $122.50

Pre-flop: (6 players) roggles is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, roggles calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $13.5</font>, 2 folds, roggles calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $19</font>, BB calls, roggles calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($59, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $59)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">roggles is all-in $47.15</font>.
Uncalled bets: $47.15 returned to roggles.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($59, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $59)


River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($59, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $59)


Results:
Final pot: $59

[OrrLives]

When I started to write this post, I was going to be critical about preflop, but as I looked at the numbers I began to see the genius of the call. Below if my slow realization that calling was probably a very good move.

Postflop was standard.




Maybe I need to loosen up preflop but...

Is it possible to find a fold preflop? Did you call the 3 bet from the BB knowing that it couldn't be 5bet by the BB (the BB couldn't reraise after the SB pushes)? If it could have been 5bet I don't like this call preflop.

If you assume that the SB is going to push, you called off ~30% of your stack with 4567 in 3 way action and had position on the BB. This is standard?

hmmm... let's run some numbers...

Against AAXX hand and AKQT hand, where your flush is dead you are a favorite. I am learning something new.

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7c 6c 4d 5h 207295 41.46 292705 58.54 0 0.00 0.415
Ac Tc Ad Kh 146366 29.27 312661 62.53 40973 8.19 0.334
As Qs Ts Kc 105366 21.07 353661 70.73 40973 8.19 0.252



Against AAXX hand and QJT9 hand, where your flush is dead you have a ton of equity but are not the favorite.

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7c 6c 4d 5h 154263 30.85 345737 69.15 0 0.00 0.309
Ac Tc Ad Kh 164974 32.99 334000 66.80 1026 0.21 0.331
Qs Ts 9s Jc 179737 35.95 319237 63.85 1026 0.21 0.360


But if you are against an AAXX hand and a hand that has a lot of your outs, and your flush is dead, you have a lot less equity.

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7c 6c 4d 5h 121416 24.28 377723 75.54 861 0.17 0.244
Ac Tc Ad Kh 216892 43.38 283108 56.62 0 0.00 0.434
8d 7d Th 9h 160831 32.17 338308 67.66 861 0.17 0.323



So I guess preflop is fine. I need to do something thinking.


Postflop is standard of course.

[OrrLives]

Actually, after further reflection... if BB 5 bets (in another scenario where he would be allowed to do so) calling might be great since he probably has high cards like the SB and your 4567 hand goes way up in value.

[chucky]

Preflop is standard. I would not shove the flop. I might bet small or medium at the flop to try and get a call, but shoving gets a fold when you do not have a showdown hand is bad.

[BountyKilla]

I really dont like doing this with 66 bb calling 1/3 of your stack pf, even in a multiway pot.

[Aisthesis]

I think you played this fine. I'm never ever laying it down PF. I just add the fact that you're suited specifically to the 7 adds value to the hand. With this action, it doesn't really matter, but that's a monster hand.

By the way, I really disagree with Rolf on this one, who doesn't seem to like it UTG in short-stack. I think you simply must see a flop with it.

[BountyKilla]

wait....what are u guys serious ?

[iggymcfly]

You're all wrong. This should be a fold preflop. The problem is that SB's stack is short enough that he's going to be 4-betting a lot, but he's not so short that BB can't 5-bet. A good BB will 5-bet about 90% of his 3-betting hands so your in bad shape here most of the time.

You're typically going to be pretty much neutral EV in the main pot, but the sidepot will be twice as big as the main pot and you're going to be behind there. No reason to get stacks in behind when you only have 1 big blind invested.

Oh, and unless the game's really unusually aggressive, you should be raising this preflop when it's first limped to you on the button.

[OrrLives]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that SB's stack is short enough that he's going to be 4-betting a lot, but he's not so short that BB can't 5-bet. A good BB will 5-bet about 90% of his 3-betting hands so your in bad shape here most of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

What? How can there be a 5 bet? Don't you need to be able to at least raise double the previous bet?

SB raises to $3.5, BB raises to $13.5,
-- $10 raise, so another raise would need to be up to $23.50, right?

2 folds, roggles calls, SB raises all-in $19.
-- $19 &lt; $23.50

Therefore, no 5 bet.

[Elrazor]

[ QUOTE ]
You're all wrong. This should be a fold preflop. The problem is that SB's stack is short enough that he's going to be 4-betting a lot, but he's not so short that BB can't 5-bet. A good BB will 5-bet about 90% of his 3-betting hands so your in bad shape here most of the time.

You're typically going to be pretty much neutral EV in the main pot, but the sidepot will be twice as big as the main pot and you're going to be behind there. No reason to get stacks in behind when you only have 1 big blind invested.

Oh, and unless the game's really unusually aggressive, you should be raising this preflop when it's first limped to you on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

this was my first thought Iggy, but as Orr pointed out the betting is closed as BB wasnt smart enough to raise just to $10 here