Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?

[chesspain]

I'm in an excellent Foxwoods 5-10 kill game, filled with your usual, braindead calling stations, although I'm still smarting from a $400 pot I lost against the calling station fish to my right who went six bets with me on the turn in a kill pot when I had the nut flush on the turn, only to have him snatch it away when the board paired and his turned set became a boat.

FWIW, I can't tell if this guy is just clueless and/or an angleshooter, since in that prior hand he clearly string-raised me on the fifth bet...although being the gentlemen I am I allowed it so that I could six bet him [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]. In addition, I have to remind him to post his blinds EVERY ORBIT, which may have been partially due to his tendency to always take off his reading glasses after looking at his cards.

In the hand in question, I overlimp from MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and six or seven players see the following flop:

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

A couple of players check, I bet, a soft-spoken, non-tricky calling station calls, and it's folded around to the clueless fish on my right. Of course, I have to remind him it's his turn to act, and he picks up both his chips and his cards, and again slips into la-la land. As I'm looking at the fish, waiting for him to act, I see out of the corner of my eye that the young, female dealer has burned and turning the following:

7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

As this happens I shout "Wait!, he hasn't acted," after which the fish smiles and tosses his hand, saying "It's not good now."

I say "Call the floor," and pandemonium breaks out, as the collective gaggle of retards start making comments like:

"Why, he's already folded?"
"What's going on?"
"It's too late."

I again say:

"Call the floor."

The dealer looks at me and says "You call the floor."

I say "Excuse me?"

She says "You can call the floor."

Consequently, I bellow "FLOOR!!!"

Does anyone do anything differently here? And does it matter if the turn card was instead a brick which might not have just killed my hand?

[Mygtar]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone do anything differently here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. This is, unfortunately, typical Foxwoods dealer nonsense. When a player asks for the floor the dealer should call for the floor. When the floor arrives I would explain the burn/turn situation only. I would talk to the floor when I went on break about the dealer attitude.

On a side note; I can't wait until Mohegan Sun opens the card room. I think I will end every Foxwoods post with that from now until it opens. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[pfapfap]

Hmm. Are they going to give him his hand back? Is he going to bother to play it? Since the damage is already done to the player whom this affects, what's wrong with keeping it how it was going to be anyway?

This is of course just part of the academic discussion of whether it matters or not. Of course you call the floor over. The dealer should have stopped all action and made it clear that the card was not going to play before.

But, again, since she didn't and if his hand won't become live again, does it matter any more?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. Are they going to give him his hand back? Is he going to bother to play it? Since the damage is already done to the player whom this affects, what's wrong with keeping it how it was going to be anyway?

This is of course just part of the academic discussion of whether it matters or not. Of course you call the floor over. The dealer should have stopped all action and made it clear that the card was not going to play before.

But, again, since she didn't and if his hand won't become live again, does it matter any more?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean, aside from the fact that the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] may have just killed my hand...

[AngusThermopyle]

Rules are rules.
They should be applied consistently.
If I held K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , I would expect the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would not play.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in an excellent Foxwoods 5-10 kill game, filled with your usual, braindead calling stations, although I'm still smarting from a $400 pot I lost against the calling station fish to my right who went six bets with me on the turn in a kill pot when I had the nut flush on the turn, only to have him snatch it away when the board paired and his turned set became a boat.

FWIW, I can't tell if this guy is just clueless and/or an angleshooter, since in that prior hand he clearly string-raised me on the fifth bet...although being the gentlemen I am I allowed it so that I could six bet him [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]. In addition, I have to remind him to post his blinds EVERY ORBIT, which may have been partially due to his tendency to always take off his reading glasses after looking at his cards.

In the hand in question, I overlimp from MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and six or seven players see the following flop:

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

A couple of players check, I bet, a soft-spoken, non-tricky calling station calls, and it's folded around to the clueless fish on my right. Of course, I have to remind him it's his turn to act, and he picks up both his chips and his cards, and again slips into la-la land. As I'm looking at the fish, waiting for him to act, I see out of the corner of my eye that the young, female dealer has burned and turning the following:

7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

As this happens I shout "Wait!, he hasn't acted," after which the fish smiles and tosses his hand, saying "It's not good now."

I say "Call the floor," and pandemonium breaks out, as the collective gaggle of retards start making comments like:

"Why, he's already folded?"
"What's going on?"
"It's too late."

I again say:

"Call the floor."

The dealer looks at me and says "You call the floor."

I say "Excuse me?"

She says "You can call the floor."

Consequently, I bellow "FLOOR!!!"

Does anyone do anything differently here? And does it matter if the turn card was instead a brick which might not have just killed my hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your line was correct.

[Mr Rick]

[ QUOTE ]
Rules are rules.
They should be applied consistently.
If I held K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , I would expect the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would not play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.

Plus when a spade comes on the turn your bet looks like a bluff.

[Milo]

I call for the floor, and do nothing until a floor arrives.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
But, again, since she didn't and if his hand won't become live again, does it matter any more?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, indeed it does. Fish wasn't entitled to see the real turn card before making his decision to muck. Because the dealer lost control of the game and because he acted impulsively, he mucked stupidly. But if the illegitimate card stands, he didn't muck stupidly; he made a rational play with more information than he was entitled to.

It's a very standard procedure, and I agree with Angus -- even if I held the nut flush draw, I'd want to see it applied correctly for the good of the game. Angle shooting corrodes the game far beyond the value of one unlucky turn card.

Fish does has a bit of a beef that the dealer should have explained what was happening, though. Sounds like Foxwoods dealers haven't gotten any better. Playing in Tunica only reinforces my perception of how bad most (not all) are at FW.

[#1 Bum]

[ QUOTE ]
I call for the floor, and do nothing until a floor arrives.

[/ QUOTE ]