The MANIAC and the TAG

[Garland]

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let's suppose TAG had 88. Would it actually be right for him to raise in front of the maniac and try to blow people out of the water with dead draws to flush and straights?


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This is live limit, 2 BB cold in a 13.5 BB pot is not going to dissuade too many flush draws/straight draws. They might be drawing dead, but most people don't care and they got the overlay just in case.

By TAG raising here, he gets the extra big bets out of the draws who won't call a river bet when they miss otherwise. Also, he may get multiple bets on the river when the nut flush gets there. Finally, maniac may keep raising with K3 or whatever he could have here.

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While in general I would agree players just like to draw no matter what, any idiot can see the flop cap action and the board pairing and add 2+2. However, the maniac's actions may cloud the other players' judgment and the table could easily be in disarray, so I reserve judgment and wait for others to speak.

Garland

[pohuist]

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I don't think these things override the obvious benefits of having him on your right and letting him act before you almost every hand.

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It is better to have a maniac on your left. See the last 2 issues of CardPlayer magazine for Barry Tanenbaum's excellent discussion of playing against maniacs.

[golferbrent]

I might of 3 towned the flop...

Outside of that I think you are fine so far--you have trusted your read and responded accordingly to the action that has developed. I very well played BB hand IMHO.

[*TT*]

Maniac cannot raise to protect your hand on the flop if you don't bet.

as played donk the turn so maniac can one again protect your hand.

[Captain R]

I think you guys are right, I should have donked the flop though. Maniac raising is a good thing since he's 2 to my left and this pot is big enough to try to win on the flop. If TAG 3-bets, it does put me in an uncomfortable situation. Do I cap? Call? Donk the turn?

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as played donk the turn so maniac can one again protect your hand.

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I would agree with you if there were more than the 3 of us left in the hand, but I am either crushed or way ahead of TAG. Although an A/K/J/3 probably chops us. So I don't really need to worry about protecting my hand, because there is nobody left to kick out that might draw profitably against me.

If we use the FTOP, aren't we profiting against TAG if we define our hand vs. his and can then react the right way? I.e., if we bet and maniac raises, he can properly fold his J or 3 bet his full house. If we check, maniac bets and TAG --

Raises, I can make a reasonable fold.
Calls, I can make the right decision and raise, and TAG made an error according to the FTOP in calling maniac's bet.

I'm using maniac as a way to "have the button" and act last in each street.

[Captain R]

RESULTS:

I c/r turn, maniac 3-bets, TAG folds and I call down like the donkey I am. River I c/c and he says "full house good?" and shows J3.

I talk to TAG later and he said he had a pocket pair, which probably means under 8, like 77/66.