River play..

Dankenstein · #1 10-30-2007, 01:50 PM

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.10.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, Hero calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (6.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, Button folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 3-bets, MP3 caps, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (19.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero ....

Basically I have 2 questions for this hand.
First should I be calling the turn as played ? or 3-bet ? I had very little reads on my opponents and was afraid that it would be spewy considering all the flop action. Is that legit ?
My main question is the river. Is raising an option here ? or am I calling almost every time here unless a strong read indicates otherwise ?
Sorry if this seems like easy/standard reasoning for most just want to make sure that my reasoning is correct.

Xylocain · #2 10-30-2007, 01:56 PM

:g:

Dont raise flop, youll just kill the dead money. Hope you get more callers and that MP1 re-raises.

Raise and cap river. There is no way MP2 or MP3 has a FD given flop and turn action.

If you call, MP2 might call as well, but if you raise ... MP2 might call as well [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[i] Edit
<--------- 1k

tyler_cracker · #3 10-30-2007, 01:59 PM

sets or better two pair are likely given the action, so don't 3bet the turn.

raise the river.

neurotiq · #4 10-30-2007, 02:02 PM

I like how you've played it so far, and I'd raise the river. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Sushiglutton · #5 10-30-2007, 02:07 PM

I would not 3-bet the turn. I don't think we have the best hand. It's also unclear if our flush outs are good, given the action and the fact that MP1 is just floating along. I don't think our equity is good enough to 3-bet.

The river is close. The pot is huge making raising a lot more attractive since villains will call light. Also given the action a higher flush is not that likely. Still this feels like a typical over-call spot.

scpi10 · #6 10-30-2007, 02:13 PM

grunch

I would call the trun
On the river I call (this may be weak-tight) MP1 played this like a FD and your flush is the lowest possible flush. I think MP1 is going for a c/r here.

Sushiglutton · #7 10-30-2007, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise and cap river. There is no way MP2 or MP3 has a FD given flop and turn action.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are always A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Anyway I wouldn't say that they never have another flush here. It's also a question if we should believe a river 3-bet on a 3 flush-board more than, say MP2's turn donk. But I agree raising is good.

Xylocain · #8 10-30-2007, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise and cap river. There is no way MP2 or MP3 has a FD given flop and turn action.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are always A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Anyway I wouldn't say that they never have another flush here. It's also a question if we should believe a river 3-bet on a 3 flush-board more than, say MP2's turn donk. But I agree raising is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thing is I dont see those hands donking turn and then checking the river. They are definately not raising the turn.

Sushiglutton · #9 10-30-2007, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise and cap river. There is no way MP2 or MP3 has a FD given flop and turn action.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are always A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Anyway I wouldn't say that they never have another flush here. It's also a question if we should believe a river 3-bet on a 3 flush-board more than, say MP2's turn donk. But I agree raising is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thing is I dont see those hands donking turn and then checking the river. They are definately not raising the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

But surey at least A2 and 62, must be in MP3' range (he has a straight on the turn)? Anyway that's not so important, since they are a so small part.

But I'm not convinced that it is less likely for MP2 to donk the turn with a FD, than it is for him to 3-bet the river (assuming he does)without a flush.

If MP1 3-bets I think capping is really bad.

Xylocain · #10 10-30-2007, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But I'm not convinced that it is less likely for MP2 to donk the turn with a FD, than it is for him to 3-bet the river (assuming he does)without a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn donk looks more like MP2 is afraid of giving free cards. As for the flop, putting MP3 on a straight-flush draw just seems to mubsy at this point.

[ QUOTE ]
If MP1 3-bets I think capping is really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I actually didnt notice there was another caller. Im only capping MP3