Why You Shouldnt Play HUSNG with 20 Buyins

[cwar]

The 20 buyin roll:
This is about as aggressive a bankroll plan I would recommend outside of taking shots, you will also need to be moving up and down in limits on a regular basis because losing 5 buyins is a pretty regular occurrence in HUSNG. Mathematically I think this is the ideal kind of bankroll from moving from the lowest limits to the 220s as quick as possible (I am targeting you players who are trying to move up because generally you are the ones using this BR plan), moving down anytime you have 15 buyins and up anytime you have 20 buyins for the next level. In reality this will work for a very small percentage of people and incorrectly using this kind of roll is how most people bust their bankrolls. I think the easiest way to describe someone who should use this strategy is by describing what characteristics in yourself should dissuade you from choosing this plan:

-You have an ego related to poker, I dont care if your confident but if you find your ego EVER interfering with making rational poker related decisions this is a dangerous plan to be using. Some symptoms include having trouble moving down when necessary, excessive chatting with "stupid fish" and having trouble quitting sessions a loser.
-Tilt, if you are at all prone to tilt, do yourself a favor and pick a much more conservative plan theres no space for tilt with a plan this aggressive. Playing with a 20 buyin roll with tilt issues will take longer to move up than being more conservative and having the same issues IMO.
-You dont have a stable life, if anything significant is going on in your life and you havent experienced it while playing poker seriously before its unlikely you know how you are going to react to it in terms of your play. In this category I would include partying, moving, going pro, break-ups, and your general personality. If there is a dynamic difference between your play one day to the next this describes you.
-Small psychological roll this can mean all sorts of things, for some people its an actual number (like losing $1000 in a day just hurts some people no matter how much $ they have) but this comes in all shapes and forms and is probably the most determining factor in what kind of BR plan you can use.
If losing 5 buyins affects your ability to play well in the future (or you desire to play at all) most likely your psychological roll has been breached.
-You are learning, no need to move up faster than your knowledge will allow you, going from the $10s to $220s quickly is not going to happen without you needing to learn and adjust. If you breeze through a couple limits fast I would recommend slowing down a bit just to see how you adjust to the better play at higher limits.

Theres a lot of things people ignore when making bankroll decisions, has a thought process along these lines ever entered your thoughts?
"Gee if I take $500 and play the $100 HUSNGs I could move up permanently and if I lose meh, its just $500"
Its important to realize in this situation that you are not just risking $500 but you are risking FAILING which could have a lot of other psychological affects. In my experience failure can cause you to:
-Stop playing
-Play even more
-Not move down after losing $500
-Gamble more to get out of the 'hole'
-Make you unhappy outside of poker

This is essentially what you risk when you play with a 20 buyin roll because you will have to be constantly adjusting which level is appropriate to play based on your widely varying bankroll. Not to mention the qualities necessary to handle yourself under the kind of pressure that having 20 buyins will put you under are quite rare, personally I do NOT have all characteristics to handle this pressure and I am a very stable person. If your goal really is to move up as fast as possible its unlikely using a 20 buyin BR plan will accomplish this the quickest. Now anything can happen in poker BUT if you want to give yourself the best possible chance of building a bankroll to play at the 220s I would recommend choosing a different BR plan.
Cwar

[Landonfan]

Thumbs up.

Edit: Is 100 BIs excessive, even for a nit?

[Nichomacheo]

This is a very good post.

Personally I like a bigger bankroll than that. 50, even 100 times the buyin. It's not so much a variance thing but a psychological thing. Losing 5 games in a row with 100x the buyin doesn't have close to the affect it does when you aren't properly rolled. Choose a bankroll that suits you.

[ChicagoRy]

I play my regular level with 30-60 buyins, depending on how I've been running/if I've just moved up.

I game select and/or purchase % from select people with as low as 20 buyins, but almost half the time this is in regular speed games, thus the edge is greater/variance lower.

Moving up from 5s-33s I used 20-30 buyins, the closest I ever came to busting was my first two weeks, I knew relatively little about husngs and lost half my br.

Since the 33s I've stuck with 30 buyins minimum.

[shyturtle27]

I agree that 20 buy-ins is very aggressive and have always wondered why it is the default move up level. What do you think of a learning player moving up with 25 buy-ins and down with 15?

[jay_shark]

If you don't suffer that much from tilt , then you are safe playing with 20 buy-ins . As long as you're willing to move up or down when required .

A player with 20 buy-ins and doesn't suffer much from tilt will have a risk of ruin of 1% , even with a win rate of 56% .

So as Cwar pointed out , some players are more affected by tilt and may need more than 20 buy-ins . Also , as you move up in limits your win rate should decline so you would need to increase your bankroll to compensate for this .

[daveT]

Thank you cwar, finally a real answer to this.

ciao.

[Deewhizzle]

Nh, Sir

[TNixon]

Just because I like you, I won't dig up the old statistical runs showing just how much potential value you're passing up on by waiting for even "just" 20 buyins, and how little security you're really buying by doing so.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Personally, I think waiting for 20 buyins to move up to any level you're likely to be a winner at is *massively* -EV, at least up through $50s, but my opinion has been voiced in great detail in the past, so there's no need to repeat it all here.

[Indiana]

only 20 buy-ins? hell i should be playing the 10Ks then

(thinly veiled brag post obv)

Indy