*** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***

[Jack of Arcades]

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he just wins football games, even from the sidelines

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No, they lost this past week. Big coincidence, right guys?

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he kinda sucked when he was playing in that game

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And yet they were tied on the road against a very good opponent when he got injured. Funny how Vince always "sucks" yet puts his team in position to win...yet without him they lose. But again I'm sure this is just a total huge coincidence.

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Assani,
Why were the titans in a position to win the game? It is because there defense allowed 3 points. VY literally could have kneeled every single play and than have the punter kick it away and it would be a 1 possession game. BTW Do you know who led there offense to the 1 touchdown they scored? It was Kerry Collins not VY.

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Assani,
Did you intentionally avoid this because it shows your argument makes no sense?

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Sorry, I didn't mean to avoid anything but I grouped this in with the myriad of other "Vince is only winning due to the Titans defense" posts to which I reply:

How come that great defense was winless without him last year and how come everyone thought they were one of the worst teams in the league before he took over?

Seems like we're going around in cirlces a bit now.

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Also, we're only going in circles because you keep saying the same thing no matter what anyone says. So, let me repeat:

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Assani,
Why were the titans in a position to win the game? It is because there defense allowed 3 points. VY literally could have kneeled every single play and than have the punter kick it away and it would be a 1 possession game. BTW Do you know who led there offense to the 1 touchdown they scored? It was Kerry Collins not VY.

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I'm not trying to be a dick here, but what did Vince Young have to do with Sunday's game?

[vixticator]

The Titans defense is great, period. This year. It's the sole reason they are winning. VY is overhyped, there is no doubt about it. You can't be THAT good and college and fly under the radar. Same for Reggie Bush. Two of the ALL-TIME greatest players in NCAA history. You expect the media to wait until they are studs in NFL to start the marketing machine? [censored] no. Especially for QB, almost no one steps in and is great. It takes time.

Young is a good prospect. The Titans did not take him 3rd overall because of hype.

[Pudge714]

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Assani,
Look how much better the Yankees were with Shelley Duncan.
Is Shelley Duncan there MVP?

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This is almost as bad as the internet analogy.

QB in the NFL matters a ton. Most important position in the league. The team is CLEARLY affected by Vince Young. If you asked the players or coaches, do you think they'd disagree?

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QB matters a ton but
Defense as a whole > QB
When defense is very good and QB is meh
It becomes a lot more important.

[BowToYourSensei]

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anyone who believes this year's titans are good because VY is their starting qb is truly delusional. young may be a great QB eventually, i'm not arguing that, but what he's done this year can hardly be considered "helping the titans win games."

all this talk about the titans offense being bad: they are the 6th best rushing team in the NFL, chris brown, not vince young, is the reason that offense has done just enough to be 3-2. young has 4.0 ypc, down from 6.7 last year, the offensive line has been great this year, young has only been sacked 5 times all year for christ's sake. and the 3 interceptions he threw against atlanta were not a result of a poor offensive line that didn't give him enough time (young was not sacked all game), they are a result of the fact that at this present moment he is not an intelligent passing qb.

so don't say young makes this team a playoff team. he most certainly does not. their running game and their defense makes them a playoff team.

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Chris Brown's stats:

vs Jax: 19 carries 175 yards 9.2 avg
vs No 11-38-3.5 1TD
vs Ind 12-34-2.8
vs Atl 10-27-2.7
vs TB 5-26-5.2

Claiming Chris Brown is the reason the offense has done enough to be 3-2 is a lot more ludicrous than saying it is from VY's influence. He had a huge influence on the first win, and very little on every other game.

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how dare you debunk my statistical evidence using statistical evidence

[DrewDevil]

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BTW I love the VY/Ichiro/Nash threads because every thread is a giant litmus test for who knows what they're talking about.

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Since you're one of the one who knows, apparently, care to go on record with your opinion of Vince?

[DrewDevil]

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BTW, just curious, do Cowboy fans in general dislike the Texans or because they have basically been bad that they just ignore them?

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Sounds terrible to say that I ignore them but they aren't a division rival or in the NFC and haven't been good enough to take serious. Hopefully this year is the start of an upward trend so that I can start to dislike them.

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Here in Austin there's a lot of anger toward the Texans for passing on Vince (and, to a lesser extent, Derrick Johnson). Also because Kubiak is an Aggie.

[DrewDevil]

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Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

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This is my original post. The point of this post is to oppose the comments that VY "sucks." I understand that the Titans strength is their defense, this isn't a hard concept to grasp. My point is that VY has zero offensive talent. They have the worst receiver/te group in the NFL, and one of the worst groups of RB's, yet the team still wins with him at QB. The point of saying this, is that if he was an awful player, with no offensive weapons, and a great defense, they would still lose games. Obviously he isn't one of the best qb's in the league, my main point if that he has nothing to work with offensively and he is getting ripped when his team has a 11-7 record with him through 18 games starting in the toughest division in football.

Obviously the defense is the main reason that they are winning games, but he has still had a positive influence on the teams win loss record, and this is without very little help on offense. I don't understand why this is a view that so many people are coming down so hard on.

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Do you think it is possible that Vince Young HURTS the teams chances to win and they still manage to win? I don't mean is it likely, just is it POSSIBLE?

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No.

vhawk, I like you, but your analogy to yourself and the internet is terrible.

QB is the most important position in the NFL and a good QB can drastically improve a team just by himself.

The Titans were AWFUL before Vince took over the starting job. Now they are a playoff contender.

I'm not aware of any significant personnel upgrades the Titans made in the offseason; in fact, they lost their best defensive player (Pacman Jones).

Vince may not have the XQL rating or the DPOZ quotient of some of the other QBs, but he is a HUGE part of the Titans' turnaround.

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The point wasn't to prove he was not responsible for their turnaround by comparing him to me. The point was just to show that you CANNOT simply use the results correlation to prove he IS responsible. You have to have the correlation, but you have to ALSO have some argument or mechanism for how he positively effects the team. Real arguments. Not that he has calm eyes or exudes winner-pheromones. They don't have to be entirely stat-based arguments, especially because football stats are in their infancy compared to baseball stats and we just don't have great ways to evaluate individual contributions. But you HAVE to have something more than just the correlation with winning.

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That's ridiculous. If he replaced Collins and there were NO OTHER CHANGES to the Titans' lineup, then he's the only possible cause, isn't he? The "key stat" is the wins and losses.

Also, it's patently obvious that a good offense can help a defense play better, and vice versa.

[Pudge714]

DrewDevil,
That is assuming players don't improve.

[Eagles]

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BTW I love the VY/Ichiro/Nash threads because every thread is a giant litmus test for who knows what they're talking about.

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Since you're one of the one who knows, apparently, care to go on record with your opinion of Vince?

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Vince is an OK QB who could improve a lot over the next few years. Right now he is better than replacement level but not that good probably about the 20th best QB in the league. Contrary to popular belief he does not have magic winning powers which lead the Titans to victory even though he is one of the worst passing QBs in the league.

edit: He does add value running the ball also but it doesn't make a huge difference.

[tdarko]

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Why? Isn't your team undefeated? VY gets 40 points each week b/c he built Giza--a wonder of the world--all by himself.

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FYP

P.S. A close friend of mine took VY in the 3rd and at that point the only QB's taken were Manning, Brees, McNabb, and Palmer...it was a live draft and I nearly fell out of my chair laughing my head off. I took Brady w/ the next pick and he tried to tell me how he wasn't a good fantasy player.