KK and terrible flop

[bsball8806]

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2. For value. No worse hand calls.
3. As a bluff. No better hand folds


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I disagree with both of these. I think worse hands can call a flop bet, and I think even the dumbest of dumb players can lay down a garbage A occassionally.

[Shattered]

Sorry. I should have been more clear about #2. You're most certainly right, but you can get the value out of lower PPs and K high on later streets anyways. In fact, you're more likely to do so (on top of the times they catch a lower pair) so a flop check is still better.

For #3, I've never seen a loose and passive donk fold a pair of aces to one bet. Three barrels maybe, but not for one.

[Profish2285]

No offense but this forum is so backwards sometimes. I posted a hand almost identical to this about two weeks ago where I was with KK oop and I checked. I had every person criticize me telling me how I MUST bet oop as villain could put me to the test with whatever. Everyone said if I was in position I could check behind. Now, I follow and post the same advice that was given to me by numerous people on a very very close hand and everyone now says checking oop is optimal. How can someone give strategy advice if they flip their opinion every hand? Thats ridiculous imo. This is not to accuse you shattered or baintz or whoever, its just an observation.

[bsball8806]

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No offense but this forum is so backwards sometimes. I posted a hand almost identical to this about two weeks ago where I was with KK oop and I checked. I had every person criticize me telling me how I MUST bet oop as villain could put me to the test with whatever. Everyone said if I was in position I could check behind. Now, I follow and post the same advice that was given to me by numerous people on a very very close hand and everyone now says checking oop is optimal. How can someone give strategy advice if they flip their opinion every hand? Thats ridiculous imo. This is not to accuse you shattered or baintz or whoever, its just an observation.

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qft. I'd love to see what ama, orange, pokey, aj, emc, or one of the other oldtimers thinks about this general situation

[Shattered]

Could you link me? I went rooting through your post history and couldn't find the thread in question.

[slush420]

to me it's an easy bet because his AF is 0.6 and this means he probably won't fold and won't raise. if his AF was more than 1.0 sure a check here is optimal. But against someone who will call with nothing or a gutshot, this is an easy bet IMO.

[Profish2285]

Im busy right now but if I have a chance I will try to find it later. It was from at least 2 weeks ago, maybe closer to a month. Noobish question but for reference later, how do I go through my own post history?

[mocky]

I dont see what the issue is here you raised p/f with KK your first to act on an A high flop in a 22BB pot im betting this all day long either villan folds and you take pot or he calls and you shut it down is this not standard?
also lol @ c/c on that flop btw.

[Spurious]

I check that flop and bet that flop. It depends on villain.
I do it with an ace and with KK.
A bet would turn our hand into bluff, but we have to do it from time to time, since we would bet here with an ace as well.
Checking is the better option imo, since we get hands like QQ, JJ, 99 to call on later streets.
But in order to stay unpredictable we have to check aces here sometimes.

c/f, if villain would bet an ace or a T only.
c/c sucks and i would never do it.
b/f if villain is a normal player.
b/c only if villain is an idiot.

c/f = b/f >>>>>>>>> c/c >>>>>>>>> b/c

[Poker Gestalt]

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c/f or c/c this flop is so bad. A LP player is calling our continuation bets with most anything, straight draws and pocket pairs included. Just because it's a 3bet pot and an A shows up, it doesn't necessarily mean villain has an A. JJ and QQ probably call this flop too.

That being said, your flop bet is too small. I hope you don't usually continuation bet 56% of the pot. This just smells like a bluff. You should be betting at least 3.75, I probably bet 4.

The turn is a little more tricky. He has an extremely low aggression factor, and he just called your flop bet. I think it was Pokey that said that when it comes to aggression factors, it's plays that seem out of the ordinary you have to watch for. With an AF that low, him calling your c-bet defines almost nothing except the fact that he likes his hand: he could have JQ, KJ, 99, JJ, QQ, AQ, or even a 10. Calling is just what he does. I think with most of these hands, given his low aggression, he probably checks behind the turn. A 10 or strong A probably bets, but the others either try for a free card, or try for showdown ASAP.

If he checks behind, and the river is a blank, c/c a reasonable bet (at this point he may try to either valuebet/bluff his JJ/QQ/99/KJ.

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I agree with this. With his stats my line (with most turns and rivers) is bet check check/call..

Not C-Betting leaves me lost not knowing what to do when villian bets.