AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement

[GutPunch]

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I wonder why it took players of a poker FORUM, as oopsed to the "regulators" of the industy/site to pick up on the fact that there was blatent and extreamly obvious cheating going on?

Isn't the kawannee gaming commission supposed to be monitering this kind of thing?

This is a really big hit for the industry in my opinoin. If the people who are supposed to be monitering the industry (poker site/gaming commission) and preventing cheating are not doing their job, whos to say this is not going on elsewhere? And by people who are not as blatent and dumb as to be caught in the mannor that these people were?

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In Nevada casinos pay huge sums to the state in the form of taxes, so the state can afford to have a lot of investigators. The KGC gets only $10,000 per year from each gambling opearator, so they can't really monitor at each poker site thousands of players, day in and day out, for possible signs of cheating. As a practical matter, they must rely on reports of cheating, and they have a form for that mentioned on their website. They would have to charge hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for each gambling outfit to be able to conduct the kind of investigations you want them to conduct. And then they would have zero permittees, since none would pay that much for the right to run their servers out of that indian reservation.

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I'm sorry but I've been wondering this for awhile and I just had to ask. Do you live in Kahnawake?

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No. I live in the USA a very long way from this reservation. I have a major client who in a small way is like Mr Norton, a former ironworker who became a businessman, so I guess I can easily picture Norton as a good guy, so when he or his tribesmen are attacked for no good reason I guess I want to present the other side.

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Your saying they don't actually do much in the way of regulation. So what exactly is the point of the gaming commission? Just to make the sites look and appear to be "legit"? Giving people a false sence of security when in fact they could actually eliminate the gaming commission and no one would really even notice.

[ThWi]

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btw another non-secret which should surprise absolutely no one is that the first several of those press releases were issued by Scott Tom. again, duh.

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Do we *KNOW* this?

.. and if the releases were issued by Scott Tom - is AP still claiming the cheating was perpetrated by a(nother) consultant?

One of Aps many problems right now is, that EITHER they have to explain their earlier lying press-releases OR they have to admit that they were made by someone in their management who was then involved in the cheating.

[ThWi]

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In the past when "conspiritards" have said poker is rigged, "those in the know" have always used the logic that it was impossible because if it happened, the consequences would be so great that no site would risk that.

Now that AP has been exposed, we need to make sure those consequences come to fruition. This way the next time someone finds himself in a position like AJ or Scott Tom were in, his EV calculation will have to include said consequences.

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This is an Absolute key point! This is why, for the betterment of online poker, we have to work to bring AP down.

[Josem]

ThWi & Others who want to bring AP down,

What are you doing about that?

[ROcketRO]

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The crime of wire fraud is codified at 18 U.S.C. S 1343 , and reads as follows:

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

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Sound good. That's where they belong.

[Matfrid]

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Hi Ada,

I am a long time "listener", first time "caller".

You and others seem to have assumed the role of a conduit of information between AP and this forum, so much so that it prompted me to create an account because I thought I might add that some may consider you, and others, disclosing "inside information".

Given the you and others have obviously been made privy to information that is not accessible by the general public, why not disclose everything you know?

What is prompting you to reveal it in pieces?

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I find this curious too. After dropping drama-bomb after drama-bomb, there seem to be a consensus to release no more information after Nortons statement came sunday 21st. Adanthar then wrote "
This statement and what I was told is actually happening behind the scenes differs in several important respects.". It's an amazing discipline, compared to all the information that was released before this, that everyone that has supplied information before, have followed Adanthars footsteps and only repeatedly hint that they know much more, but will not say. It makes these threads very dull since five days.

I think I would have done the same though. There is an enormous difference in the situation, from documenting suspicions about cheating in a forum and having the company deny everything, to presently having the company confirm the suspicions and promising to investigate, tell everything and make eveything right. I believe you when you guys repeatedly hint that you are just waiting for what Absolute will do, and don't want them to be able to adapt their official releases one after one according to whatever new information is released in the forum.

This doesn't make it any less dull though.

[ThWi]

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ThWi & Others who want to bring AP down,

What are you doing about that?

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For my own part from where I am - not having been an AP player myself, not a whole lot: Tell anyone and everyone who cares that they should stay away from an identified cheating poker site. Help to promote the true story - as far as I at any point am informed.

[ubercuber]

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However, I do think there is a significant possibility that one day they will run a completely secure site (from all angles) that will offer a 100% fair gaming experience. There is ALSO a significant possibility that they will never truly clean house

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If they don't clean house and more importantly show some transparency, I don't know how we can ever believe that they're running an honest site.

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Yeah this cloak and dagger crap is not going to help them. If someone accused me of stealing something I would empty and turn out all pockets. When accuser later learns that I have secret compartments in my shoes, he is NEVER going to believe they were empty all along.

AP: "These pants? These aren't even mine. But I am certain nobody has been in the pockets for over a year. Obviously this persons wallet was placed here by a putpocket to demonstrate his skill and frame the owner of the wallet. That picture on the ID may look like me but I am as innocent as anyone."

My opinion: There is ZERO reason to believe they are heading in a direction of honesty as they have not yet begun to respond honestly (admitting what is blatantly obvious is not a significant step forward). How can they? They are the sociopath that doesn't realize everyone knows they are lying. Inventing lies to cover lies. They are not changing, they are controlling damage, and poorly at that. The organization oozes shadiness. They really need to clean house, but when the homeowner needs sweeping, who will hold the broom?

Just to completely muddle the metaphors I'll add that it is sinking ship, as well as a dirty house and a pair of pants. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Exsubmariner]

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Hi Ada,

I am a long time "listener", first time "caller".

You and others seem to have assumed the role of a conduit of information between AP and this forum, so much so that it prompted me to create an account because I thought I might add that some may consider you, and others, disclosing "inside information".

Given the you and others have obviously been made privy to information that is not accessible by the general public, why not disclose everything you know?

What is prompting you to reveal it in pieces?

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I find this curious too. After dropping drama-bomb after drama-bomb, there seem to be a consensus to release no more information after Nortons statement came sunday 21st. Adanthar then wrote "
This statement and what I was told is actually happening behind the scenes differs in several important respects.". It's an amazing discipline, compared to all the information that was released before this, that everyone that has supplied information before, have followed Adanthars footsteps and only repeatedly hint that they know much more, but will not say. It makes these threads very dull since five days.

I think I would have done the same though. There is an enormous difference in the situation, from documenting suspicions about cheating in a forum and having the company deny everything, to presently having the company confirm the suspicions and promising to investigate, tell everything and make eveything right. I believe you when you guys repeatedly hint that you are just waiting for what Absolute will do, and don't want them to be able to adapt their official releases one after one according to whatever new information is released in the forum.

This doesn't make it any less dull though.

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I don't know, there's the attention whore aspect of the whole thing. The need to be a "hero."

There's other possibilities as well, up to and including a some kind of confidence scheme. The closeness of those reporting to "inside" information is rather curious. I am suspect of the motivations of everyone, perhaps cynically, perhaps unjustifiably so. My gut tells me there are angles here from all sides. Maybe this whole thing was a set up from the word go.

I don't automatically make assumptions that there are noble and ideal motivations behind any of it. But then again, I don't know the whole story, so I can't say there are any dark agendas or schemes, either. That is to say, I am suspicious. That everyone just rushes to buy into the proffered explanations is naive, imo. I doubt the complete story will ever be known, but maybe I'll be able to get the book for free with some left over players points somewhere one day.

There is great entertainment value and popcorn munching from my perspective.

[Josem]

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I don't know, there's the attention whore aspect of the whole thing. The need to be a "hero."

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You clearly don't know - because the reasoning for not making everything public was noted in the post that you quoted.

For AP to show their honesty, it needs to confess to stuff that is not public. One obvious way of checking that they are doing this is by deliberately keeping known stuff private.

AP do not know what we know. Thus, if they're hiding something, they don't know if they will get caught.

Thus, the only way for them to come clean is to come completely clean.

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There's other possibilities as well, up to and including a some kind of confidence scheme. The closeness of those reporting to "inside" information is rather curious. I am suspect of the motivations of everyone, perhaps cynically, perhaps unjustifiably so. My gut tells me there are angles here from all sides. Maybe this whole thing was a set up from the word go.

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The offensive suggestion that I, or Nat, or Adanthar, are part of some inside scheme is:
a) offensive
b) wrong
c) false
d) absurd
e) idiotic
f) moronic
g) crazy
..amongst other things.

Do you seriously suggest that Absolute concocted up a plan to make the whole veracity of their base as a business as some sort of bizarre marketing technique?

The rest of us have a filter between random thougths and actually making serious and offensive comments. We call it a "brain." You should get one and start using it.

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There is great entertainment value and popcorn munching from my perspective.

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I am glad that you are willing to make such offensive suggestions behind a thin veil of anonymity. I am glad you find such activities entertaining.

For those of us who are not such cowards, these sorts of comments are simply offensive.

The people that you slur without evidence, rhyme or reason deserve a retraction.