NL 25 - 88

Sniiii · #1 08-10-2007, 06:19 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($13.25)
Hero ($25.45)
UTG ($3.85)
MP ($27.65)
Button ($1.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, Button folds, SB calls $0.50.

Turn: ($2.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25.

River: ($2.75) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero calls $1.

Final Pot: $4.75

I'm not sure whether to raise pre-flop here. Either way I chose to just check it, as I generally am not too fond of raising as BB unless only SB has completed his blind and we're the only two left in the pot (Of course I'll raise with AK, AA, and alike though)

As I'm not quite sure if I played this correctly, I'd love to get some inputs on the relative hand.

selector2006 · #2 08-10-2007, 06:26 PM

Is there anything weaker the BTN can do than call preflop?

Looks like you have the best hand preflop, so raise it.
Raise the turn, looks like he's drawing. If he has a J that's too bad. Next time you win it.

matrix · #3 08-10-2007, 06:30 PM

raise preflop to 6BB or so.

Button open limped so he's a) terrible and b) will probably foldto a raise so steal his limped BB.

if he calls, meh we almost always have the best hand preflop so we are happy to get called. 88 is a better preflop hand than AK and you raise AK so......

flop: - your raise is too small - you want to make it a PSB which is $1.50

turn: I'd raise again - odds are he hasn't got a J or A5, I raise minbets like it's my job when I have something I am happy to SD (we have 2nd pair and are often ahead BUT it's a fragile hand if he's got AK or AQ A5 or the fd we are giving him way too easy a ride to spike the river)

river: that river is one of the best bricks in the deck we could hope to see so call here is std I think.

Sniiii · #4 08-10-2007, 06:35 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. Though Matrix, I usually raise 4BB + 1BB per limp - are you sure 6BB is the correct amount? As said, I'm not too experienced on raising as BB (leak in my play), so I'm all listening to any advices I can get here.

WCGRider · #5 08-10-2007, 06:51 PM

88 IS a better preflop hand then AK but that is misleading, AK is almost never a real dog, whereas 88 frequently is.

As for the hand, bet preflop. withouth that, looks pretty standard to me. NH

matrix · #6 08-10-2007, 06:51 PM

we are OOP if button calls our raise, I think maybe 7BB is a better raise than 6 actually - we want some compensation for the times button calls with a worse hand (anything worse than 99+ is a worse hand) and we are forced to play a marginal hand OOP. It also means that if button does call with a worse hand like AJ or whatever the bigger raise he calls the worse his implied odds are - as we are likely ahead we should be thinking about what implieds we offer the villain.

Ideally we want everyone to fold to our raise - so we play faster than normal. We have good position on the button preflop - but awful position postflop - so we don't want to play postflop - we just want to steal the pot her eand now, and failing htat we want to setup the hand so that often when he does call preflop we can take the pot down with a CB bluff on the flop - we act first so if we bet out on an Ace high flop for example he really can't call without an Ace - most of the time he doesn't have an Ace so we win the pot.

When you play poker don't just think about the decision here and now - think about how things might go on later streets, and have a plan of what to do if x y or z comes on the flop.

In this hand we raise preflop for value cos we almost def have the best hand pre. We see we will be OOP postflop so we want to play faster preflop to try and kill it off now for a nice score (winning a 2.5BB pot is a good result) to negate our possible postflop disadvantage, but we also have a backup plan to steal an even bigger pot postflop witha CB bluff for "good" flops (flops we hit hard or flops that villain might think we hit hard if we bet convincingly)

Obv if the flop comes A high and we bet out and get called then give it up (short of turning a set) but try to ensure that the hands you play more often than not you are in the driving seat and are making the villains make the tough choices.

youngKR · #7 08-10-2007, 07:18 PM

6BB Pre Flop.

CB Flop. Should take the pot down in this situation 80% of the time.

You should almost always be raising your PPs preflop.

robinmbuk · #8 08-10-2007, 07:26 PM

I raise this pf because button limpers should be punished... it's such a weak move. If BTN and SB weren't uber loose and I had a really tight table image (i.e had got awfull cards all session so I keep folding) I'd consider actually raising any 2 cards here, 88 is auto raise.

I feel your raise on the flop is correct, SB is prob drawing, but like matrix said makae the raise pot sized. On the turn this could still be a draw, but some people would play a weak jack this way too. Against an unkown I'd prob raise and make notes of how things turned out.

River is pretty easy call, but he does turn up with a J quite often here. My thinking for this is that if he doesn;t have a J he must think you might have one like KJ from the flop raise, so it'd be an odd card to bluff, but people do odd thigs.

JROK777 · #9 08-10-2007, 09:17 PM

Do we raise all PP in the blinds when we have UTG-BTN limpers? Or do we raise 77+ and just call w/22-66? Raising every PP has the advantage of making the pot big enough to stack someone. Not raising lets us off cheap when we have the worst position at the table. I have been raising every PP no matter what in limped pots. Not sure what is correct.

Sniiii · #10 08-10-2007, 09:39 PM

Thanks a lot for covering that part up for me, Matrix and Robin. That definitely cleans up a leak in my play. As for Jrok, I haven't been quite sure of that myself. I usually limp with low pockets in early positions, and raise them in late positions. Though with that said, I'm not sure what is the most awardable here and it'd be great to get an input on that as well.