Is this the right way to play, or should I have just called the flop?

[Unknown Soldier]

flop raise is too thin, just call

[iheartponeez]

In what way does 3-betting make this easier? If I'm called I know I'm beat?

[bsball8806]

Why does everyone hate the flop c/r? I think it's a good way to trap CO into c-betting with something like AK, AQ, AJ, etc. Once he overshoves on top, it's pretty safe to assume he has QQ+, maybe AKc.

p.s I 3bet preflop too, especially when this is CO raising

[MEC2210]

yeah, I agree with him. I just started playing NL full time (have played against you, poneez) and after an initial ass-kicking I'm moving up quickly. I agree with the CR... like you said earlier, it's costing you $5 dollars to learn that you're beat, as opposed to what would probably end up being 2 more pot-sized bets, supposing you CC. It's a scary board and is only going to get worse for you. The CR here is your only solid chance to win the pot.

[iheartponeez]

Can anyone explain to me why 3-betting preflop was the right move? He calls and then...? I donk into him? I check and have to call a much larger bet? I don't really understand.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone explain to me why 3-betting preflop was the right move? He calls and then...? I donk into him? I check and have to call a much larger bet? I don't really understand.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think 3betting here is dependent on his stats, which I didn't see anywhere in here.....?


Anyway this is a pretty tricky spot, but I don't really have much to add. I probably would have gone with the already mentioned check/call down line but really only planning to call 2 streets and fold if he ends up betting all 3.


The check/ call flop lead turn idea, however, sounds pretty intriguing.

[Shattered]

Why does everyone hate check/calling so much? I'm beginning to think a lot of the advice on this board is too aggro. You're almost certainly not calling another PSB on the turn and river unimproved, so saying that "a check-raise lets you know where you are cheaper" is simply wrong. Since villain is solid you can fold to a double barrel on the turn for much less. Even if you do call a full PSB on the turn you've paid exactly the same amount as you have with your check-raise, except now you're on the river without having bloated the pot with a marginal hand OoP and can reevaluate the river.

Basically, the check-raise is really bad. A flop check-raise allows villain to play perfectly except when he holds 88, or maybe A8 and A7. Furthermore, you have to fold to the flop 4-bet (his range crushes yours), which he can (and should) do with a lot of hands. The only reason to do so is to define your hand and prevent you from making a larger mistake later in the hand, but against a straightforward player you're not going to make any mistakes that makes it worth doing.

[Shattered]

Also, could someone elaborate on what sort of turn you would lead on after c/c-ing flop? I'm thinking I would donk an A or K for about half pot as a bluff, but what would you do with a blank or, say, an 8?

[traz]

check-raising isn't terrible imo, but it's probably not optimal. Check-calling is good, but then you have to make tough decisions on the turn...if you're a good player and know your opponent, you can donk the turn or cc another bet or cf if you know you're beat...or what have you.

But if you're opponent is good, he's going to be double barreling alot, because there are sooo many scare cards that can come. So it actually is closer than people are making it...yes you might be ahead, and yes cring might let villains play perfect or shove on you, but if you cc against some opponents you might end up just spewing money on the turn.

I see no reason to 3bet preflop and I think it's just a way for poor players to avoid tough but much more profitable situations. CRing the flop is a similar idea, but less of an error (imo).

[MEC2210]

I still think CR'ing is better than check calling. there's no way that flop improves for you, and if he's decent, you're check-calling to the river....in which case, most likely, you'll be beat. I too see no reason to 3bet PF. I think that was said a bunch because there really isn't any good way to play this hand here. It's a crap situation any way you slice it, and 3betting is being thrown out there as a hindight-is-20/20 piece of advice...this is just a crappy hand.

and yeah, re: 3betting, i'd much rather do it with 5's, 6's, 7's...at least that way you know you're getting paid off when your set (and overcards) arrive, and it gives you the opportunity to win some small ones with hands that usually don't win you any. 9's aren't that good of a hand to 3bet most of the time...on a board with a bunch of small cards it leaves you in a situation where you have no idea of where you are...any one of those 5 overcards hit and you're up the river.