JJ spot

[AdamL]

In answering this I'd like to know where you're setting the context (what limit, what site).

You raise JJ after an open limper in early position. The blinds fold and he calls. The flop is A87, with a flush draw showing.

Villain check-raises you. Villain is unknown.

What is your line, why, and what is the context you have in mind?

[Nick C]

I fold in all of the contexts that I've encountered so far (which, in limit, is Party pre-ban up through 5/10).

Edit: Okay, I don't always fold, but it is my default against an unknown.

[AdamL]

I see so many hands I'm ahead of check-raising here that I can't fold even against an unknown on the flop. ymmv. I've been at the same places though. I guess I tend to assume that unknowns are aggressive.

[Nick C]

I haven't played limit post-ban, but I actually don't recall getting flop checkraised in the situation you describe with any great frequency. What I recall instead is fish having some respect for the ace on the flop when playing versus a preflop raiser.

Edit: By the way, though, put my unknown opponent in the big blind and I'm much more likely to call down. Make those coordinated rags just one notch higher (as in 98) versus the limper, and I'm also a little less inclined to fold.

[AdamL]

Ah, I see where you're going. I'm not sure I agree with folding yet but you make a good point about villain's position. Also the gutshot vs. oesd's thing is true, although I think maybe it matters less. (Their range is wide anyhow, and they'll cr gutshots + over 'middles' to see if you'll fold an unpaired hand etc.)

[Nick C]

It's not just the gutshot vs. OESD. The higher those coordinated rags are, the more likely it is that you're being checkraised by middle or bottom pair. (Also, though, if the cards are higher, then the chances of Villain having any straight draw, including gutshots, do increase, to some extent.)

Still, I don't claim to be an expert on this particular situation -- I'm like two months out of touch, after all, and people fold to flop continuation bets plenty in NL25, which is the most recent thing I'm drawing from even if unintentionally -- and hopefully someone else will chime in.

[sharpie]

At 5/10 - 10/20 on stars I tend to calldown barring bad cards. I think you'll see some draws and occasionally worse made hands often enough, but I'm not certain.

[Guruman]

at wpex 3/6 I tend to threebet and then valuebet all the way down.

alternatively I call and raise the turn sometimes, checking through the river if called.

at stars 3/6 I tend to either fold right away or call down.

at stars 1/2 I tend to just fold.

[sharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
at wpex 3/6 I tend to threebet and then valuebet all the way down.

alternatively I call and raise the turn sometimes, checking through the river if called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the first one, but the second one might be good if we're planning on calling down. Do people usually fire the 3rd barrel when they get called by the PF-r on the turn with an ace on board?

[Guruman]

people don't think that deeply.