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#21
08-29-2007, 04:43 PM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
[ QUOTE ]
are people that are calling the turn calling down? I dare you to find some hand ranges in stove that give us 12% equity. [/ QUOTE ] a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I'm raising this turn, and that's all I'm putting in. I have seen some retarded plays, and I am not convinced I'm losing. I can see why you want to fold, the pot is really big, and we probably have 5 outs when behind, well, 4, cause that other guy probably has a Q 
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#22
08-29-2007, 04:46 PM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] are people that are calling the turn calling down? I dare you to find some hand ranges in stove that give us 12% equity. [/ QUOTE ] if you give MP some combos of dumb stuff like TJ, [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img][img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], worse Q, maybe even a smaller pair to go along with 2pair and set hands you can easily get >12%. that is including UTG with a range of flush draws, pairs, and discounted sets and 2pairs. [/ QUOTE ] seriously keep adding hands until you get to 12% and see what a joke it is. post it. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] MP is a loose passive fish [/ QUOTE ] you are talking about pokerstove like that's all the hands he could have. He is a fish because he sucks at poker. He sucks at poker because he doesn't know what to do. Just because he bets the turn doesnt mean we are losing, because this guy sucks at poker, it's hard to infer what his turn bet means. I'm just saying it's hard to PS a range for a guy, when he calls 1000 bets on the flop and donks the turn. That play pretty much shows he has no clue whats going on. And all of you folding AQ because "he must have two pair", what are you doing with AA on the turn here? Are you folding AA, raising, calling?
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#23
08-30-2007, 03:29 AM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
With AA i would calldown to this turndonk from a very passive station.
Hero cant fold b/c he has 8 outs to beat villain when behind and there is still a chance to be ahead. I also wouldnt raise to keep utg in the hand.
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#24
08-30-2007, 03:41 AM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
Ok thanks guys.
It must have been a close one since good players here disagree. I folded BTW. Donkey had JT for the picked up OESD and the other guy won the pot with QT. I have been tilting ever since.
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#25
08-30-2007, 03:47 AM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
he is a fish because he sucks at poker.
He is loose passive because hes loose passive. They are two connected , but different beasts. I dont know how you can all argue "loose-passive players do this point 1/2/3/" I call down or raise if I all I know is "hes a fish" I fold if I know hes a "loose passive fish" This all depends on how strong oinks read is on the degree of his passivity If it's only statistics based, then dont fold.
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#26
08-30-2007, 03:49 AM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
[ QUOTE ]
This all depends on how strong oinks read is on the degree of his passivity [/ QUOTE ] All I knew was that he was loose and bad and passive. I didnt really know whether he would be capable of betting a worse hand. Does that change it to call or raise for you Heis?
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#27
08-30-2007, 01:09 PM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This all depends on how strong oinks read is on the degree of his passivity [/ QUOTE ] All I knew was that he was loose and bad and passive. I didnt really know whether he would be capable of betting a worse hand. Does that change it to call or raise for you Heis? [/ QUOTE ] A) Turn donks from bad players like this are often weak hands. It's a cheap mans bluff/semibluff because they want to represent, but don't like putting the money in that a c/r will cost. B) Calling is dumb. It only makes sense if you can c/f the river UI and the odds are just to big for that - I say this because we are usually either ahead or chrushed on the turn. Raising is god because you will charge both players to draw and you can fold to a 3-bet.
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#28
08-30-2007, 01:46 PM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
Oink, from your posts you always analyse each hand extremely well and I can't really fault you.
You're weakness semms to lie in the fact that you seem to beieve that all of the players you are up against spand all day reading 2+2. They don't. Their minds are not in the logic zone, they play mad hands in the wrong place at the wrong time! One of them has the draw the other one has QJ a decent ammount of the time. Raise again! If you get three bet then c/c, it gets tough if one raises and the other cold calls or 4 bets. Only then would I consider a lay down.
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#29
08-31-2007, 12:30 AM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
standard call down imo
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#30
08-31-2007, 05:40 AM
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Re: Do I fold too much?
After reading a lot of Oinks posts i dont think he has the weakness of overestimate the skills of his opponents. One of his strengths is that he can adapt his game and making opponent dependent play. For example coldcall QTs bu with 2 loose bad players behind or muck with 2 TAGs behind.
The complete discussion in this hand is imho how strong the read about villain is. We dont know if we play against a very passive station or against an bad player who is able to sometimes make some weird semibluffs multiway.
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