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  #1  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:10 PM
QTip QTip is offline
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Default 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

JJ and TT are tough for me in many spots. Here's one I played yesterday about which GM and I spoke briefly at a table.

Poker Stars, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $681.15
UTG+1: $609.60
UTG+2: $1,106.85
Hero (MP1): $582
MP2: $335.10
CO: $1,695.10
BTN: $600
SB: $1,072
BB: $234.50

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP1)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $21</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $72</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $51

Flop: ($150) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $114</font>

First of all, we all know that GM does 3 bet a fair amount. I can't see doing much else PF except calling...anyone raise or fold?

On the flop, I can't think of much else to do besides raise/fold or just fold.

I hate this spot.

Now, on this particular flop, I think a raise can look more like a semibluff, so I wasn't particularly interesting in getting involved so I was learning towards fold. Other flop might make the decision easier.

What do you do here?
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  #2  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:15 PM
WCGRider WCGRider is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

Thinking about this i really dont have any Qualms with folding calling or raising.

Folding is weak but to be honest he is representing some fair strength here and you can get away relatively cheaply.

Calling gives him a chance to bluffof his stack on the turn, which is entirely possible.

Raising is probably worst but you can still feel ok because this isnt QQ/KK/AA all of the time.

Id probably call.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:23 PM
PenguinExpress PenguinExpress is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

Huh, I can't see much else to do besides call here and get it in on a blank turn. I don't think I've played with GM before, but as I understand it, he is much too aggressive for you to just fold the flop. Raise/folding seems like suicide to me.

Do you have a read on how often he double barrels in reraised pots?
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  #4  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:23 PM
KurtSF KurtSF is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

Shove.

His c-bet tells you nothing, and I'm pretty sure you're ahead of his 3-betting range preflop.

So yeah, reload, then shove.

$0.02
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Ctrl.Dominate Ctrl.Dominate is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, we all know that GM does 3 bet a fair amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any ideas as to what types of hands he 3 bets with preflop? Obviously big hands, but does he prefer SC or small pp's or both. Unless he gets out of line with his preflop 3 betting, I think this is a fold. I don't play at these levels or know anything about him besides what he posts so I'm probably wrong.
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:42 PM
D.L.M. D.L.M. is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

If he three bets you alot why would you fold? are you set mining? your hand either has to have some value preflop and on the flop or has to be considered set minining which is really dumb against grand melon. He knows you suck in these spots which is why im sure he 3 bets you alot. Im not sure how much he does 3 bet you but he 3 b ets diff people diff amnt based on how hard he owns them. You must have a collar round your neck =)
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:50 PM
Mike Kelley Mike Kelley is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

Call.

Raising is bad as it lets him get away. Folding is bad cuz your are surely ahead of his range. He probably has 10 outs and if he triple barrels with AK as much as he advertises on here, you should be golden. I think fold if a A,K or 4 hits though. ldo
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:03 PM
QTip QTip is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

[ QUOTE ]
If he three bets you alot why would you fold? are you set mining? your hand either has to have some value preflop and on the flop or has to be considered set minining which is really dumb against grand melon. He knows you suck in these spots which is why im sure he 3 bets you alot. Im not sure how much he does 3 bet you but he 3 b ets diff people diff amnt based on how hard he owns them. You must have a collar round your neck =)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I've earned some respect playing against GM. Actually (and I understand this has no reflection on his skill vs mine) he's 2nd on my biatch list [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:07 PM
KurtSF KurtSF is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

For the sake of argument, let's take his 3-bet range as 99+, AK, AQ. You crush 99, TT, are crushed by AA, KK, QQ, are slightly ahead of AK and AQ (and a toss up against JJ, A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]).

With this range I think shoving is a suuuuuper high-variance play, and probably in the end -EV (since you get called more when you're crushed). That said I do think you're ever so slight ahead (anyone want to stove it?) and should push your edge. Frankly, GM is very aggressive and will force you to make these high variance plays to get the jump on him. If you're not rolled for high variance play against GM you should avoid big pots with him and fold the flop I suppose.

Now moving on, the thing is, is that I suspect his 3-betting range is bigger than what I assumed above. You are ahead of pretty much the entirety of the "expanded" range, as there's few monsters on this flop that make it in. For instance, I doubt 33, 44, 55, or A2 are ever in GM's hand here (though 67s might be). So if his range is wider (suited connectors, 2 big cards, etc.) what is added (in addition to 99+ AQ+) is air and flush draws.

BTW, good OP. Looking forward to reading more.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:17 PM
diebitter diebitter is offline
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Default Re: 600: Hand Against GrandMelon

If you're reasonably certain of his range, it's 4-bet or fold.

As it played, I minraise just to be annoying.
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