Ask a music scene micro celebrity

[calaverasgrandes]

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If you like the Jesus Lizard, you're stuck with only them, because nobody else comes close.

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Oh gee now you are being humble. I find Rapeman to be every bit as good in a SIMilar vein. Likewise I find JL could never have existed without Scratch Acid, who were effing faceripping in 85 or so).
That all aside. Have you ever heard someone mix a recording that you did that really screwed up the sound you were going for?
PS how is working with neurosis? While I am a big fan of a lot of their stuff, they seem to sound more "studio" with each new release.

[king of the deck]

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6 voices? i only know of the recorder/flute, string section, and choir voices. what others are there?

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Our set is by no means complete, and we have flute, violin, cello, brass, choir, and double-bass.

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sweet, will you guys let me record a cover of 'big bottom' at electrical

[calaverasgrandes]

Hey Steve, oops I guess what I meant to ask about Neurosis didnt translate very well (worked a 12hour shift doing networking stuff, and proceeded to lose my wallet at a grocery store afterwards, with everything in it, so I am up on nerves brainfarting)

What I MEANT to ask was how is it working with Neurosis esp Dave and Noah as they seem to be from a more Pro Tools-y direction and making pretty much electronic music. Whereas your forte seems to be in capturing acoustic energy in a space.

PS not besmirching Dave and Noah at all, friends of mine actually. shared stages/practice spaces with em. Recorded Noahs old band Blister once.

[squashed]

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That digital data are reproducible in no way ensures that they will be copied, and the nature of digital files is they inevitably will disappear unless they are perpetually copied and migrated onto new storage media as the old ones become obsolete (a regimen that absolutely no one is undertaking). Analog recordings just sit on a shelf until you need to play them, and then they play just like always.

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From music fan point of view, naive one mind you:

big picture wise, one only needs to convert once to a Hardrive with some standard format, and keep data specification as a note. Plus, data storage/digital locker service is a dime a dozen these days.

at practical level, you pretty much take home the argument. It's not possible to save people from every stupidities/freak accident. If a person doesn't have the foresight and not transfering their digital data into most common/most reliable/cheap medium/not controled by single corporation. ... well. ... The music is owned by the guy who control the mechanism plus hand of time. That's pretty much true for any medium. It's only a question if a person is comfortable rigging an analog reader or write a digital hack.

So if I find any random digital maste" from who knows where, as a music fan I pretty much look at it like I find a moon rock. If I am curious enough, I might then google and find a studio that still has said equipment so I can read it. Not an elegant solution I am sure.

The very point of "digital" is to be able to precisely extract out information and seperate it from the medium later. If a person doesn't take advantage of this feature and wishing a medium will last forever. Well, ... I mean. Whaddya gonna do?. In that case, record in the best analog devices.

" DAT, ADAT, ADAM, DTRS, DCC, 1610 (also 1630), F1 (also 601-901), DBX, JVC Soundstream, Mitsubishi X80, X850, ProDigi, DASH, 3M... You get the idea. What would you do if you found a nine-track tape of some SD1 files, or a U-matic tape with Soundstream data? You sure wouldn't be able to play them."


As exercise, if hypothetically I find a master in those standard, can I get a service to shove it into a HD today?

F1
http://www.audiotubes.com/prorates.htm
X850
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep0...fxcopyroom.htm
DBX
http://aroundcny.com/technofile/text...ecorder86.html

nine-track tape
http://www.chicorporation.com/ninetr...ves/index.html
SD-1
http://www.youngmonkey.ca/nose/audio...skFormats.html

PS. very clever Steve. yer not probing me trying to figure out if I am a programmer or a studio engineer are ya? :P


PPS. I am surprise there is no "general" catalog, on the net describing various recording specification and where people can go to get the data out. I bet there are plenty of desperate people wanting to know that.


"On the other hand, if you bring me any (yes, any) analog audio recording made in the last 100 years, I'll be able to play it."

be carefull what you wish for, you might have to eat your short. :P
(but then again, you might call my bluff and ask me to bring in a holographic disc containing analog sound recording.)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20060050339.html

A hologram recording method includes generating a signal beam with data formed by superimposing pattern data, the pattern data representing a pattern in which a large number of plural kinds of pixels having different tone values are arranged in a two-dimensional manner, on an image data of respective pixels represented by tone values corresponding to density, and recording a hologram by irradiating a converted beam formed by Fourier transformation of the generated signal beam with a lens and a reference beam to an optical recording medium.

[electrical]

Squashed, you will doubtless appreciate that I don't want to rely on hiring someone off the internet to make a copy of old masters for me, and in what an awkward position this would put the rights owner. A couple of years ago, some original Led Zeppelin master tapes made their way out onto the internet via a "simple" copy someone wanted to make.

Additionally, playing a digital master is not necessarily the simple process you imagine. The Mitsubishi X-series tape machines, for example, have mechanical head alignment adjustments, which tend to drift more and more over time. Mitsubishi did not supply alignment tapes or instructions (as they were considered intellectual property), and it did not allow them to be made by a secondary source. For this reason, if you find a working X-series machine, it is unlikely to play back any master tape not recorded on it.

I only know this because I was peripherally involved in another studio trying to play an X80 tape about 8 years ago. It proved to be impossible on the two machines they found in Chicago and three more in Nashville -- including the one it was supposedly recorded on.

Eventually they used a commercially-pressed vinyl record for the re-issue master.

I tell this story because it demonstrates that the digital nature of the data is meaningless, because the data are still resident on a medium (there are another couple of pages I could fill about the volatility of digital media, but this is far enough afield for the moment), and that medium is subject to the failures of time, the playback device, penetration of the technology and (increasingly) intellectual property protections. The story would be the same if the data were on one of the many proprietary removable tape systems or any other format long since discarded by the computer industry.

Analog recordings are much more robust, and playback devices are ubiquitous, non-proprietary and not particularly difficult to make, if it comes to that. Analog recordings require no additional attention to last centuries. Longevity is built-in.

If you want to continue the sport of trying to find "solutions" to my reservations about digital recording, be my guest. It is clearly entertaining you, and it might be entertaining for others. You are unlikely to come up with anything that hasn't occurred to me in the last 20 years that I have been working on the problem myself, but it can't hurt anything.

[calaverasgrandes]

eh dat isnt that volatile. I recently transferred some old (12 years) dats into my system, edited em, burned to CDRW.
FWIW CDR's that are more than a few years old are dying on me. CDRW's seem to be more "robust". I am more cagey about DVDr as a backup because the pits are even smaller and closer together.

[drink]

Happy Birthday Steve Albini!

As far as a question… I don't really have a good one. I'll just say that I absolutely love the sound of Didn't It Rain by Songs: Ohia. Also, Things We Lost in the Fire by Low. Two of my favorite albums.

Well, OK, here's a question (or two): are you still going to be recording stuff for Jason Molina? And what's he like to work with? Seemed like a reasonably nice guy when a friend of mine approached him at shows.

And I'll have to add that I'm not crazy about the way Low sounds now that they're working with Dave Fridmann.

[DJ Psychomike]

I have always told people in bands that they should find interviews with you for a good idea on the way the recording industry works. That and watching the Hanson film that actually has negotiations and fights on film between the record company and the band. (Talk about burning your bridges!)

The White Stripes seem to have sparked a 7" revival in the UK which continues to grow. When record companies switched to CD's it was the techno and house kids that kept turntables alive. It seems to me the way to get kids to stop downloading is to present them with a keepsake (something like the gatefold albums of the past that we would shake our seeds out of on, er I mean, look at and pass around). CD's just don't have that feel, regardless how anyone feels about the sound.

By presenting people with something they can own and dream on as well as the music is the way to bring vinyl back. Thoughts?

Prince just released his new album in the UK as an insert in a Sunday paper (I don't think he's done anything good in 12 years but love this concept)- he got a million for it (and didn't have to wait years to get paid) and 3 million were sold in one day.

Should a band today consider the different forms of distribution and not just labels or do you think that isn't important? With newspaper and magazine sales plummeting frankly if TIME OUT had a special cd issue in which you picked music you liked I would buy several copies. How do you feel about this?

Have you ever heard any mashups of your work? (Don't worry I don't sell them or post them online). How do you feel about this?

Thank you for being honest.

"The modern day artist refuses to die!" - Eric Satie

PS- would you cheat at strip poker?

[squashed]

[ QUOTE ]
Analog recordings are much more robust, and playback devices are ubiquitous, non-proprietary and not particularly difficult to make, if it comes to that. Analog recordings require no additional attention to last centuries. Longevity is built-in.

If you want to continue the sport of trying to find "solutions" to my reservations about digital recording, be my guest. It is clearly entertaining you, and it might be entertaining for others. You are unlikely to come up with anything that hasn't occurred to me in the last 20 years that I have been working on the problem myself, but it can't hurt anything.

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Well, there is that silly ha ha aspect, but underneath I do wonder about something more serious:

1. The function of digital audio as a way to distribute music. (take aside the recording technology aspect, because obviously making records, the art of capturing sound and putting it in some medium will be forever be an aesthetic system. An art. The more digital a recording method becomes, the more intense artistic side needs to be because there are so much more freedom to capture and transform the sound wave, etc... This holds true for every single data collection previously done on analog only devices. Plus this will quickly devolve into toy talk and specification table.) But as a way to distribute music, all statistic shows digital is altering the economics of recording industry. The majors are dying. Partly because listeners can truly scan huge amount of music and not paying the one they don't want to pay. As people know where to look for better music beyond radio/TV, the economic relationship also changes. IMO, the general long term advantage far outweigh the negative.

2. This leads to second item I am wondering. What shape of audience-musician connection you think ideally can exist in digital world beyond go to concert, buy albums. (I think the net gives opportunity for audience to enter into the artist-label equation differently than before.)

The difficulty with digital file of course. a) the price perception is different. Nobody really spends time answering this yet. Everybody pretends things will be the same. b) current audio quality is very low. c) obviously CD will be dead pretty soon.

You are few people accessible online who has unique perspective on this.


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just hit me.
incidentally, the latest attempt along the DIY digital media is of course Ubuntu studio. It is in very primitive stage right now, but it has the foundation to get away from all silly industry locked beginning from operating system. no more proprietary softwares, hardware plugs, add ons, certifications, etc.

[calaverasgrandes]

as far as digital vs analog. Analog tape simply sounds better and mixes itself compared to digital mediums. In my current project I am composing, recording and posting a new song on the internet at least once a week for the whole year of 2007.
out of deference to Steve I wont put up any links. Needless to say this would be difficult to pull off in the analog world recording-wise. But not impossible. jingle guys do better than this by an order of magnitude, and have been for decades. But again on the distribution side....
Also, cost considerations. It woudl be prohibitive to try and pay for that many reels of tape. Disk space however, is almost free in comparison.