25/50 KK

MrFeelNothin · #1 07-19-2006, 03:01 AM

Big 3way pot, I dont usually play full ring so having a hard time avoiding telegraphing my hand in this situation. Whats my flop plan?

I have never seen the preflop reraiser(A) before tonight, he is most likely completely new to the site (this is not on party). He is very aggressive, seems to be making lots of moves and is doing pretty well. We are both deep-stacked at another table where about 30 minutes before this I 4bet bluff him on a J54 rainbow flop after coldcalling his pfr. In the chat he said he folded AJ and that I played my hand horribly. Ever since then he has been coming at me relentlessly, I can't sneak a continuation bet by him and I can't hit a pair or draw. I'm not sure if he thinks I'm laggro and constantly full of [censored] or if he thinks I'm tight/weak and am laying down hands. Either way, hes gunning for me.

Other guy(T) seems very solid, but I haven't played a whole lot with him and have never been in a big pot with him. He seems to be staying out of my way. Only time I can remember him coldcalling one of my raises he had QQ on the button, called my flop bet on Axx and checked behind turn and river.

Stacks-
T- 4700
Me- 8860
A- covers

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $200</font>, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises to $800</font>, 4 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($2475, 3 players)
Hero ?

luckychewy · #2 07-19-2006, 03:05 AM

why not 4-bet a guy who is 'gunning for you' pf? also, you let (T) in with what are probably good implied odds. as played i like leading ~$1700 and folding if you get heat from (T) but not from (A).

MrFeelNothin · #3 07-19-2006, 03:26 AM

I rarely ever 4bet preflop, but I definitely considered it here. Mostly because I know T has a pair when he coldcalls me and as you said I would like to play this HU and I dont want to give T odds to call. However, I think A views me as weak/straightforward because of the hand I 4bet the flop- he put me on a monster -and the 4-5 hands we have played since then that he has ran me over. Because I haven't shown any desire to play back at him thus far I think a 4bet here would make my hand really obvious.

I also kind of thought T would fold to the reraise...calling 600 there with a 4500 stack. Guess not.

luckychewy · #4 07-19-2006, 03:36 AM

i don't find it hard to believe (T) would call with a pair even with a smaller stack if he realizes (A) has been going on an aggresive tear lately and since you are also in the hand he can expect some extra action multi-way if he happens to flop a set.

given this information i think checking puts you in too tough of a spot because of (T)'s relative position. i can't see folding to whatever (A) does if it gets checked to him, and having (T) act after you sucks because if (A) bets and you call/raise and (T) has flopped a set he calls or moves in and if he hasn't he folds, hence why i like leading out.

kagame · #5 07-19-2006, 06:03 AM

open push!

ship it.

aba20 · #6 07-19-2006, 06:05 AM

With your image you should look to get it in preflop. People love calling you with TT+, and AK.

creedofhubris · #7 07-19-2006, 07:32 AM

well, with the pot that size, and with T's position, IMO you can't avoid doubling T up if he's got a set. (you don't get to see his reaction to A's bet before you have to act.)

So basically try to get max value vs. A and ignore T. which means checking to snap off the cont. bet. You're not particularly worried about free cards, and A seems like he's firing at you a lot, so let him.

ismokerocks · #8 07-19-2006, 08:55 AM

He might know that he has been running you over and think that you will play back at him at some point. An overbet raise here my signify weakness in his head and also protect your hand against the coldcaller. Plus I'd like to get a bunch in preflop so the flop move is pretty simple... just push.

MrFeelNothin · #9 07-19-2006, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i don't find it hard to believe (T) would call with a pair even with a smaller stack if he realizes (A) has been going on an aggresive tear lately and since you are also in the hand he can expect some extra action multi-way if he happens to flop a set.

given this information i think checking puts you in too tough of a spot because of (T)'s relative position. i can't see folding to whatever (A) does if it gets checked to him, and having (T) act after you sucks because if (A) bets and you call/raise and (T) has flopped a set he calls or moves in and if he hasn't he folds, hence why i like leading out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is definitely a concern, checking puts me in a situation where I am guaranteed to pay off (T) if he did in fact hit a set. It also makes my hand pretty obvious if I CR (A), QQ probably won't pay me off as there are no other made hands it can beat, it would have to put me on AK/AQclubs or a monster bluff. So I probably lose QQ with a checkraise, and I get stuck in against (T) if he hit 999 or JJJ, but can I really get away from my hand if I lead for 1700 and (T) goes all in for 2200 more? It would seem he has to have a set there, but here is another piece of info about (T), you decide if it applies here or not....

When I was playing with him the day before this, I saw him raise preflop and call a reraise 3 times. Twice the flop came Axx and he took the pot down with big flop raises. Once the flop came KQx, all clubs and he led out into the preflop reraiser, taking it down again.

MrFeelNothin · #10 07-19-2006, 03:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
open push!

ship it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kagame and ismokerocks,

I didn't consider this, but it is certainly interesting. I think it would be better though if I only had 100bbs. As it is, I would be pushing for over 3x the size of the pot. I don't think worse hands would be calling me very often, and I would be losing out on a potentially huge continuation bet.