Hand 2 - 10NL: Flush draw vs.

[Chargers In 07]

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As you can see by my initial post in this thread I also think that shoving this flop is the obvious play.

[/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] I missed it cuz we posted at the same time with yours above mine.

[ElectricWaffles]

@ toymach776: I'm probably missing something, but...

Why is the inital call preflop bad? With two limpers and position isn't seeing an unraised flop with KJo okay?

I can see the value in raising/Cbetting, you'll take the initiative and often take down the pot etc. But isn't it also the case that in a raised pot KJ is vulnerable to being dominated? I guess you just have to recognise that and play carefully after you raise.

I think i'm missing something =) Any clarification I'd welcome.

[Chargers In 07]

KJo does not play well against a big field. There will likely be at least 5 players in this pot (maybe 6) and that is not a situation we want. We would like to raise this preflop and isolate one or two people...or fold. Raises probably have little to know respect at this level so folding isn't bad. I'd much rather have T9o than KJo.

[BotOnTilt]

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As for folding pf to his raise: at 2NL [...] the vast majority of the players are raising any faces, any pp, and usually more... do I still fold the KJo with such donkish pf raises?

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Yes. The fact that the rest of the table plays badly is not a good excuse for you to do so. I'd advice you not to limp with it either. Gapped connectors aren't that likely to hit. I think at these limits you need to play a lot of hands for their implied odds. I wouldn't raise KJo from LP, because as seen in this hand you almost always get so many callers its multiway - and its possible that your hand is not the best even if you hit a J or K (many people limp AK).

On the flop, I love a push. I don't usually like to play draws this strong since there isn't almost any FE. But I like the push because the rest of the table will not think about Hero semi-bluffing a short stack with the nut draw and FE, they will see you as a maniac who tried to bluff the pot by pushing his entire stack and possibly sucked out. And I think you'll get a lot more action when you bet heavily with the nuts in the following hands.