In!!

[KitCloudkicker]

OK my big question:

Why do I suck at playing AQ and JJ in nl, and make a bundle in limit?

OK, more specifically...how would you play this hand in nl?

1/2 live. My stack = $300.

UTG raises to 6. This small raise is weakness. 4 people call, the sb calls. I have AQo in the big blind. reraise, no?

So i reraise to a whopping 30. UTG folds as expected, but one guy who hates folding preflop calls. Villain has me covered.

Flop is AsKc3s. Whats the plan? In limit this hand is easy. In nl...hmm, not so much.

[yourface]

I think you should raise more preflop. with so many limpers, bad position, and a hand that doesn't play well in big pots I think it is best to take it down now

maybe 45$?

you cover villain? I would bet the flop with the flush and straight draws being possible

[4_2_it]

Check call flop. Bet turn if flop checks through. I'd be looking to get two streets of value out of TPTK against most players.

[MrWookie]

I've just been reading about this sort of spot in PNL, and the way they talk about things here is brilliant. You probably should have decided preflop if you were planning to get all in with TPTK/TPGK against any one of your cast of characters. If you are willing to, then your PFR makes sense. If not, you're better off just calling. At this point, any bet you make or any bet you call on the flop or afterwards should be made with a willingness to subsequently get it all in. You've made the pot so big here that either folding after calling any reasonable bet or making a reasonable bet yourself is a mistake, or your decision to raise preflop and bloat the pot was a mistake.

[sethypooh21]

Raise more PF. ABA talks about this in his videos - about killing the implied odds of chasers by overpot-3betting when oop with a good-but-dicey hand (AQ and JJ most certainly qualify)

[ QUOTE ]

Check call flop. Bet turn if flop checks through. I'd be looking to get two streets of value out of TPTK against most players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even with the FD/broadway draw on the board?

[yourface]

the whole "checking a good hand with the initiative" part of nl confuses me a lot coming from lhe

there was a similar thread on deucescracked where I asked about it, and this is the response I got from jhstv12

the hand in question was multiway with AK on an A44 flop after raising preflop, but I think the reasons apply here as well (?)
[ QUOTE ]
Reaons not to bet flop

1. Keep pot relatively small- You have a strong hand in a decent pot that you dont want getting out of control with two more betting streets.
2. Betting forces you to fold the best hand a majority of the time to any pressure.
3.It folds out plenty of hands that can eitehr bluff or begin to think they have the best hand or as you said nick catch a second best hand.[/qoute]

[jstill]

[ QUOTE ]
You probably should have decided preflop if you were planning to get all in with TPTK/TPGK against any one of your cast of characters. If you are willing to, then your PFR makes sense. If not, you're better off just calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT this morsel of advice is gold and really essential in NL

[justin]

[ QUOTE ]
Check call flop. Bet turn if flop checks through. I'd be looking to get two streets of value out of TPTK against most players.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
the whole "checking a good hand with the initiative" part of nl confuses me a lot coming from lhe


[/ QUOTE ]

Huge conceptual difference between limit and NL is that in Limit the pot is our sole concern. In NL, the pot, when comapred to our future bets and stack is insignicant. Your job in NL is to protect your stack and get villains stack. Therefore in every sitution ask yourself "where am I getting my money from?"
On a board like this or an a44 multiway board you can deal with giving a free card because hands that are behind you have a long way to go to catch up, you may induce bluffs, and small proportion of the time you are behind. Checking the flop allows you to keep pot small, which allows opponent to make future bad calls and future bad bets that your hand is strong enough to handle. Guy is calling your 3 bet you nailed the flop let him hang himself dont help him out by betting out and allowing him to fold.

P.S I am by no means nl expert, only played about 150k hands, and probably grossly distort concepts that were taught to me so anyone who wants to disagree with me please feel free.

[4_2_it]

Others have explained my rationale in a clear fashion. I will just add that limit converts should always be thinking about pot size and manipulation.

Big hands = big pots
Small hands = small pots

This hand falls in the latter category (of course with some reads this could also be the former sometimes.)