playing aces

TheBeats · #1 10-19-2007, 04:59 PM

it's an on-line $5-$10 limit game, you are in third position with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

small blind is a player you've not seen before, you've been slugging it out with UTG+1 you are both semi-loose, aggressive players

Pre-Flop:

UTG+1 calls, you raise, small blind calls, all other players fold

Flop J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]:

small blind checks, UTG+1 bets, you call, small blind calls

Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]:

small blind checks, UTG+1 bets, you raise, small blind raises, UTG+1 calls, you call

River J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]:

small blind checks,, UTG+1 bets,

what's your play, what do you put your opponents on?

One Outer · #2 10-19-2007, 05:35 PM

Welcome to the forums.

Not raising the flop here is pretty bad, IMO. I see what you're doing but you're letting SB in cheap. I don't like it. I used this picture yesterday and this is an appropriate time to pull it out again.

As played, I think you should call the turn and only call the river if you're not overcalling. You have lots of outs against two pair.

Bob T. · #3 10-19-2007, 06:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you're putting villain on AxKc?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, why not raise the flop. I would rather offer the third guy into the pot 4.5 to one, than 8 to 1.

[ QUOTE ]
what's your play, what do you put your opponents on?

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I don't like your seat here, the SB could be trying to checkraise again, I don't want to get stuck in the middle of a raising war here, so I probably think I have to fold now. I just wish we had raised on the flop.

TheBeats · #4 10-19-2007, 08:06 PM

Thanks One Outer and Bob.

Ok, confession time, I was sb with trip twos.

I don't normally play this high, I felt that the other players had mis-played their hands, but wasn't sure if I was missing something.

On the river aces raised, I three-bet, UTG+1 and aces call.

UTG+1 turns up KJ, I told you they'd being going at it. I suspect Aces thought he was trapping UTG+1 and hoping that I'd missed a flush/straight draw on river.

Checking I was expecting to get bet, call, c/r and hoping for two crying calls.

Is my re-raise on the river correct with seat three raising. I was certainly sweating a bigger set as I get called twice.

One Outer · #5 10-19-2007, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks One Outer and Bob.

Ok, confession time, I was sb with trip twos.

I don't normally play this high, I felt that the other players had mis-played their hands, but wasn't sure if I was missing something.

On the river aces raised, I three-bet, UTG+1 and aces call.

UTG+1 turns up KJ, I told you they'd being going at it. I suspect Aces thought he was trapping UTG+1 and hoping that I'd missed a flush/straight draw on river.

Checking I was expecting to get bet, call, c/r and hoping for two crying calls.

Is my re-raise on the river correct with seat three raising. I was certainly sweating a bigger set as I get called twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yeah they misplayed their hands. UTG way overplayed top pair and AA should have raised the flop.

I'm not sure I three bet the river. I don't have a big problem with it, and I'm not sure whether it might be a mistake. I'm going to say it's ok because if you're going to make a mistake like this is should be a mistake of aggression in a big pot with a huge hand.

I'd be less than honest if I didn't say that I was mildly annoyed by you posting the hand as if you had aces. Not sure why.

Xhad · #6 10-19-2007, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, confession time, I was sb with trip twos.

I don't normally play this high, I felt that the other players had mis-played their hands, but wasn't sure if I was missing something.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO you played your hand worse than the AA.

I don't know what everyone's afraid of "letting in cheap" on a J24 rainbow flop 3 handed. If there's a reason slowplaying to the turn is bad it's because a flop raise induces a 3bet from Jx more often than a turn raise will. His line even has the benefit of not making it obvious when he peels with overs.

The 22 slowplay, on the other hand...because it looks like the PFR has AK, there is a higher than usual risk of a turn checkthrough, along with a higher risk that pfr gets away without putting in any more money. Raise the flop.

TheBeats · #7 10-19-2007, 08:59 PM

I appreciate the analysis, thanks and sorry.

I felt the interesting play was that of UTG+1 and aces, and I was curious if anyone would find the play correct, I couldn't see that happening if you knew sb cards. I also thought knowing I was in the sb and asking "what do you think of these guys play" would bias things against them.

TheBeats · #8 10-19-2007, 09:14 PM

Xhad, I felt bets were coming out of the players (I said they were slugging it out), the flop didn't look very co-ordinated and I certainly didn't want to get put on two pair or trips and win a small pot pre-turn. Or tip my strength and get called down (at best).

Xhad · #9 10-19-2007, 09:53 PM

Don't feel bad about posting hands where you weren't hero. Hell, I once posted a hand where I semibluffed the turn and it worked, but I pretended it didn't and made up a river so I could ask if I should value bet it. I never told anyone before this though: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7319943

Generating interesting discussion is the most important thing, even if it means completely making the hand up.

Xhad · #10 10-19-2007, 09:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Xhad, I felt bets were coming out of the players (I said they were slugging it out), the flop didn't look very co-ordinated and I certainly didn't want to get put on two pair or trips and win a small pot pre-turn. Or tip my strength and get called down (at best).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you tip your hand maybe even to the point of inducing folds when you wait for a brick turn. If the PFR has overs the only way you make money from him is if he draws to his pair which he will nearly always do vs. your flop raise, while if he has an overpair he's going to raise at least one more time anyway; similarly the flop donker has either Jx or a smaller pair and I don't think he folds either to just a flop raise, might fold a smaller pair on the turn and is more likely to 3bet the Jx on the flop.