Big call vs bigjoe2003, how bad is this really?

[JDalla]

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JDalla, why are you assuming 60/40 when AKo is 65/35 vs random and you are suggesting his range might be worse off than ATC?

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yeah I guess that was quite a low estimate.

Yeah I think you're right. Adjusting the numbers to 65/35 vs his range, calling is now -$.70.

The more I think about it the more I like this call.

[jkpoker]

need aakkqq

[Little John]

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i think all of these neg ev calls between regulars is pretty silly on the bubble. all it really does is transfer equity from the two of you to the two other players (assuming they are not winning regulars).



i would just make sure i push ATC (or 90%) into joe every time. if he is not making neg ev calls than you should not either.

now, if you catch joe making neg ev calls vs you on the bubble then you should return the favor.

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you spite call me on the bubble all day long.

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i call you very light, but that is because i put you on ATC anytime you have the chiplead and i'm not 100% great with my bubble call ranges, thus stuck playing 60's.

but if you think i've made some big time neg ev calls vs 100% push range, pm or e-mail me them and i'll take a look, and i apologize in advance if they are really bad.

i'll check my database and see if i can find a few...

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ok, it did not take me too long to find one.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB (t2190)
UTG (t6000)
Button (t2230)
Hero (t3080)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t5975</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t2855 (All-In), <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t8905) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t8905) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t8905) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t8905

neg 1.7% vs ATC

but it is really not a neg 1.7 call, because if i fold i am gonna get short and will be pwn'ed until i am down to about 300 chips and flipping vs the other shorty. if i win (63%) i will be able to pwn the bubble.

this has been discussed before. most agree some type of neg ev play is good to make in this spot for the reasons i describe, but obviuosly 1.7% is too much. so a bad play, but not really a spite call, because if you loose this you are still in pretty good shape. this is more a case of not wanting to get pwn'ed too bad.

[futuredoc85]

f that 1.7% blah blah blah you cant let him push u around!

[kleath]

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i think all of these neg ev calls between regulars is pretty silly on the bubble. all it really does is transfer equity from the two of you to the two other players (assuming they are not winning regulars).



i would just make sure i push ATC (or 90%) into joe every time. if he is not making neg ev calls than you should not either.

now, if you catch joe making neg ev calls vs you on the bubble then you should return the favor.

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you spite call me on the bubble all day long.

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ih8money is the only one who truly spitecalls and he hates everybody

[Kevin8423]

Obv... he hates money.

[spacegravy]

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Obv... he hates money.

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[kleath]

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Obv... he hates money.

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touche

[jukofyork]

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i think all of these neg ev calls between regulars is pretty silly on the bubble. all it really does is transfer equity from the two of you to the two other players (assuming they are not winning regulars).

i would just make sure i push ATC (or 90%) into joe every time. if he is not making neg ev calls than you should not either.

now, if you catch joe making neg ev calls vs you on the bubble then you should return the favor.

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I made a post about this several months ago (see here).

I'm still hoping the multiway NE calculator guy tries out the suggestion I made about computing "unspitable" pushes (see here).

If you view all the SNGs you play as "one big game" and don't just consider each decison/SNG in isolation, then I wonder if the "true" nash equilibrium might be both a mixture of playing to maximise your own EV for the current situation/SNG and also spite calling appropriately to reduce opponent's future +EV plays against you in future SNGs.

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AMT]

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Obv... he hates money .

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and i hate him.