KK86 in the CO and flop a set

[luckbalks]

First off...calling with KK86 is never good on the button or CO?

Villain is 32/1.5/5

Full Tilt Poker - Pot Limit Omaha Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $33.25
BB: $205.50
UTG: $61.25
UTG+1: $112.90
MP1: $98.20
MP2: $48.55
MP3: $34.35
Hero (CO): $96.35
BTN: $52.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9 Players)
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1.00, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.00, 2 folds, BB checks

Flop: ($3.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $1.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8.75</font>, BB calls $8.75, UTG+1 calls $7.00

Turn: ($29.75) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $29.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero...</font>

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
First off...calling with KK86 is never good on the button or CO?

[/ QUOTE ]luckbalks - "Never" is not the word I would use. KK86 with one suited king is a very speculative starting hand in limit Omaha-8. I don't know about pot limit.

Your low possibilities stink. Omaha-8 is a high/low game, and a game where you want to scoop, but your low possibilties stink.

The way I play, there are only four decent lows: A2WZ, A3WZ, 23WZ, and A4WZ. In all these cases, W is a different wheel back-up card and Z is anything. That's just my opinion and I don't feel like arguing about it or explaining it. A4WZ is really stretching it, but is included because A4 is a much better two-card combination than 23.

At any rate the 6-8 combo stinks, as does the K-8-off-suit combo. (In other words, half the two card combos in the hand, 8-6 and K-8 are absolutely horrid two-card combos). The K-6-suited combo is very weak but not absolutely horrid. Only K-K is decent.

So, yes, it is not a very good starting hand.

And then, although you flop a set of kings, you still want the board to pair and you have one of your own outs for the board pairing in your own hand. Instead of the normal 7 outs for the board to pair on the turn when you flop a set, you only have 6 outs.

Anyhow, you bet the pot on the first betting round, which seems proper to me.

But then you get two callers. Ugh.

And then when the turn is an ace, UTG+1 pots. And that pot sized bet, should you call, will enable UTG+1 to put you all-in on the next betting round. Thus your potential cost to possibly win half of the $29.75 in the pot is $96.35-$9.75=$86.60.

Do you want to risk $86.60 to possibly win $14.88?

I wouldn't.

It's a good bet by UTG+1. You cannot tell if he has AAXY, 23XY, both, or neither. But the risk is not worth the possible gain.

It's an easy fold.

Assuming you did fold, I don't think you played horribly. The ace on the turn was bad luck for you. Sometimes you get a bad card on the turn, which coupled with a shrewd bet, makes it impossible for you to continue.

Buzz

[MattS]

[ QUOTE ]
First off...calling with KK86 is never good on the button or CO?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will call with most of my KK hands in late position (and also in early position if the table is not to aggressive preflop). The implied odds you will have if you flop your set justify the call in my opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyhow, you bet the pot on the first betting round, which seems proper to me.

But then you get two callers. Ugh.

And then when the turn is an ace, UTG+1 pots. And that pot sized bet, should you call, will enable UTG+1 to put you all-in on the next betting round. Thus your potential cost to possibly win half of the $29.75 in the pot is $96.35-$9.75=$86.60.

Do you want to risk $86.60 to possibly win $14.88?

I wouldn't.

It's a good bet by UTG+1. You cannot tell if he has AAXY, 23XY, both, or neither. But the risk is not worth the possible gain.

It's an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Buzz. This should be a fold.

Of course it is possible villain has put you on the nut low draw and is betting the scare card. But then he will have a back up low like 2 5 almost any time (Surely I would). It is doubtful he will fold to a push.

[chillrob]

Is this actually a high low hand? The original post looks to me like it is straight Omaha high.

[niss]

I would not play this hand except in extremely limited circumstances. This is a win a little/lose a lot hand, as evidenced by the hand posted in the OP. You are too easily freerolled by a low hand, especially one with spades. And if the board pairs on the turn, your action probably dries up. The only hand you want to be against is a lower set, and who plays a hand with a set of 6s or 4s that doesn't have other low cards?

[franknagaijr]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this actually a high low hand? The original post looks to me like it is straight Omaha high.

[/ QUOTE ]
At least one of the hand converters doesn't get this correct.

I'll play KKMM double-suited specifically on the button, and only from cutoff if there are already four limpers, or if the table is especially full of stupid-juice.

In this hand, I've got a strong feeling that the potter has the made nut low and is trying to avoid a chop. Even with that knowledge, you're still pretty much screwed, since he's freerolling for a straight. Fold.

If it had been bet-call, action to you, obv you'd be much more likely to stay in.

[Jorge10]

I probably would play this hand, but I wouldnt raise this flop. I would just call on the flop and then see what the turn brings. In this case I would fold.

[luckbalks]

well it seems I played the hand the worse way you possibly could. When the A came on the turn I re-potted him and he was free rolling me for the whole pot with a straight draw. His straight came and I got scooped...

I see how I should have played the hand now which is folding to the turn bet.

I was really suprised by how much equity villain had on the flop which was 70% according to pokertracker.

[Jorge10]

By the way I was villan in this hand and had A357, cant remember suits.

Edit: I didnt know my stats were so laggy. I am one loose player.

Edit Again: Your avatar is badass.

[neverforgetlol]

KK86 is garbage. It's essentially KK and nothing else.