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#11
04-21-2007, 02:14 PM
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Re: When.....
[ QUOTE ]
When the majority of soldiers serving say that this is not working. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, I didn't know they were being consulted. What's the ost common thing you hear a soldier say when asked a question about agreeing or not agreeing with something - "I have a job to do, and it's not my place to decide whether that job is useful or not" - Now it's THEIR responsiblity to decide when to leave? [ QUOTE ] If you look at a successful counter insurgency (the Brits in Malaysia), it took several years to quell the resistence. I would give the Iraqis another 6 years. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't that a timeframe for withdrawal? I can think of plenty more examples where occupying countries eventually grew tired of trying to fight an assymetric war and slunk home - it's the farce of occupation - you are ostensibly there "on behalf" of the people, so you can't very well just start dropping bombs. 
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#12
04-21-2007, 02:16 PM
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Re: When.....
[ QUOTE ]
The polls of the Iraqis are quite interesting. Most of the Iraqis want the USA to leave...BUT...don't leave now. If you look at a successful counter insurgency (the Brits in Malaysia), it took several years to quell the resistence. I would give the Iraqis another 6 years. [/ QUOTE ] You do realize that the majority of iraqis think that US soldiers are legitimate targets, right? they don't want us there. it is an illegal occupation
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#13
04-21-2007, 02:22 PM
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Re: \"This war is lost\" - no it\'s not! - question for war supporters
Awesome post.
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#14
04-21-2007, 02:26 PM
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Re: \"This war is lost\" - no it\'s not! - question for war supporters
[ QUOTE ]
This isn't a war. The Iraq war was won when we took Baghdad. Since then we've asked our soldiers to be policemen, and the usefulness (to the US) is virtually nill. We should either leave, or start actually fighting a war (with an actual, measurable objective). [/ QUOTE ] I mostly agree with this (except I'd only say we should leave).
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#15
04-21-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re: \"This war is lost\" - no it\'s not! - question for war supporters
no price is too high to pay for the warmongers. Why? Because they NEVER pay the cost. The iraqis, US soldiers, and taxpayers pay the cost. Politicians have no problem with iraqis dying by the hundreds of thousands, or soldiers dying in the thousands, or taxpayers laying out billions per month.
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#16
04-21-2007, 02:39 PM
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Re: \"This war is lost\" - no it\'s not! - question for war supporters
[ QUOTE ]
so in the view of the recent dust-ups over Reid's assertion that the Iraq War is lost and a really brutally violent week there - I want to pose the question to current war supporters - what events or series of events would lead you to believe that the US military presence in Iraq is no longer a helpful thing? What line needs to be crossed before you will say, "[censored] it, this isn't working." [/ QUOTE ] What would constitute a victory in Iraq to begin with? To most of the answers to this question, I would say "this was clearly impossible from even before the invasion". The probability of a western power coming in and establishing a democracy that survived long after they left, in the heart of the middle east, amongst the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds, with the surrounding nations and their own self-interest, among a population with severe distrust for the West and no experience with democracy, sitting on a goldmine of resources, and 0 international support for the project, was always extremely, extremely, low. I know I'm not a current war supporter (never was) but hey, seemed like an interesting question.
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#17
04-21-2007, 02:49 PM
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Re: \"This war is lost\" - no it\'s not! - question for war supporters
[ QUOTE ]
What would constitute a victory in Iraq to begin with? To most of the answers to this question, I would say "this was clearly impossible from even before the invasion". The probability of a western power coming in and establishing a democracy that survived long after they left, in the heart of the middle east, amongst the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds, with the surrounding nations and their own self-interest, among a population with severe distrust for the West and no experience with democracy, sitting on a goldmine of resources, and 0 international support for the project, was always extremely, extremely, low. [/ QUOTE ] Johnny, THE US DOES NOT WANT IRAQ TO BE A DEMOCRACY
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#18
04-21-2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: \"This war is lost\" - no it\'s not! - question for war supporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Very few understand the cost of losing or abandoning this war in the very much larger picture of war against Islam. ... Were it obvious that Islam has reformed I then figure we can relax. Not happening. [/ QUOTE ] Is this really what we're down to calling it? A war on religion? With that, is any potential victory really defined by the religious conversion of Muslims? [/ QUOTE ] And how exactly are we supposed to win that? Kill all of them? [/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't just giving up be a whole lot easier? That's the Dem position, play dead and hope it's not a dress rehersal.
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#19
04-21-2007, 03:01 PM
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Re: When.....
[ QUOTE ]
You do realize that the majority of iraqis think that US soldiers are legitimate targets, right? [/ QUOTE ] Most? I know the Kurds like us. Do you have proof to support this statement? [ QUOTE ] they don't want us there. [/ QUOTE ] The Kurds want us there. And every poll I've seen says the majority of Iraqis want the USA to leave.....BUT just not now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] is an illegal occupation [/ QUOTE ] According to whom? The Iraq resolution was passed and supported by many including Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, etc... The vote for war and occupation passed the House, Senate and was signed by the president. It is 100% legal. As for the war, Saddam violated the armistice many times. A violation of any armistice is a causi belli for war.
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#20
04-21-2007, 03:06 PM
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Re: \"This war is lost\" - no it\'s not! - question for war supporters
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't just giving up be a whole lot easier? That's the Dem position, play dead and hope it's not a dress rehersal. [/ QUOTE ] The Soviet Union is animated by a new fanatic faith and determined to impose its tyrannical regime on the rest of the world. In this battle agains the Communist scourge there are no non-aligned countries. Any Communist government is part of the Soviet Empire so Communism must be contained. We cannot allow any country to go Communist.... So let's see there was the Iran-Contra Affair and the slaughtering of Nicaraguans, and the toppling of Allende and installation of one of the most brutal dictators in South and Central American history, oh and that Vietnam thing, oh and the funding and arming of those freedom fighters in Afghanistan, that one kinda came back and bit us on the ass....whole Domino Theory seems rather silly now though.... a dress rehearsal for what? all out jihad?
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