Flopped boat QKK

[coatsie]

Played my first PLO H/L game today so need all the help i can get, just ordered ciaffones book

I felt he was trying to CR with KQ, KJ, K3 on the end?

Would like to hear peoples thought process for the hand.


PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.02 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($1.06)
BB ($4.28)
Hero ($3.33)
MP ($3.29)
Button ($1.99)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.02.
Hero (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.06) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.06</font>, SB folds, BB calls $0.06.

Turn: ($0.18) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.18</font>, BB calls $0.18.

River: ($0.54) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero?

Also any links to previous essential 2+2 posts would be awsome.

Cheers

[RoundTower]

wrong forum, but for this hand it doesn't really matter. I think you should raise your post here even with no suits.

I think there is value in betting the river and folding to a raise, you have to expect he will call you with any K or maybe a flush.

[coatsie]

what forum do i need?

[RoundTower]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/po...p;Board=omaha8

[FireStorm]

I doubt he's trying to CR the river after c/c'ing the turn. Bet an amount he can call, like $.25, and fold to a sizable raise.

[Buzz]

Coatsie - Since I moved you post onto this forum, I want to make sure you get at least one response here.

Alas, I'm not the best poster to make it, since my experience is mostly in limit Omaha-8 games.

However, I'll give it a shot.

You have a nice starting hand, probably nice enough that it would be nice to have a bit more in the pot to start. But you're out of position, have already posted, and you don't want to merely steal the blinds with your fine starting hand. So you check. Hard to fault. But then you end up playing three handed anyhow, and are probably sorry you didn't raise, the way things turned out. I have no suggestions, but maybe someone else with more experience does.

And then you flop queens full of kings. It's probably the best hand immediately after the flop, but vulnerable and needing as much protection as you can give it. Two checks and you bet the pot. Seems correct to me.

Anyone continuing should at least have a king, but maybe these opponents either don't know that or don't believe it.

BB calls. We can do a quick calculation here, and assess the possibility one of two hands was dealt a king. Then we assume anyone dealt a king would continue after this flop (and maybe anyone who wasn't dealt a king folds).

At any rate, we make the calculation on the basis of two hands, rather than one, even though only one has called. Here it is:
P = 1-C(43,8)/C(45,8)=0.327

Assuming I didn't punch in a number wrong on my hand held calculator, the probability one of these blinds, was dealt a hand with a king is slightly less than one third.

At any rate, BB calls your bet, and then calls again on the turn. Does that mean he has a king? I don't know. The fact that BB is playing makes it look more likely than the roughly one out of three we calculated above that he does have a king. But on the other hand, just because he's playing doesn't mean he has a king. Both things considered, I think it's close to a coin-flip.

It doesn't look like he has kings full on the turn because he checks and calls. I'd expect him to bet or check/raise on the turn with kings full, but maybe not. (There's no way around knowing your opponents).

Then, if BB does have a king, will he have made a full house on the river? That's unlikely. How unlikely? Approximately, he needs one king and one of his other three cards to be a jack.
P = 1-C(38,3)/C(41,3)=0.209

In other words, assuming my fingers didn't stumble on the keys of my calculator, about one fifth of the time if he has KXYZ, he'll make kings full with this particular river card. The other four times out of five, he pretty much has to pay you off. And for half a buck, even without a king, he might pay you off just to see what you're playing.

Bottom line: Shove in fifty four cents and make him at least pay to see your hand.

Epilogue: Yes, you hate to get check-raised here, but I think you take the chance. Even if he check-raises, it might only be trip kings (or a bluff or bad bet).

Summary: Pot it. (And then call if he check-raises).

Buzz

[BlueBear]

[ QUOTE ]
Summary: Pot it. (And then call if he check-raises).

[/ QUOTE ]

These micro PLO games are ultra-loose and are very passive postflop. A river check-raise is never a bluff here, and hence it's a laydown IMO.

If villain intends to bluff, leading out is the common way for typical players to do it. Check-raise bluffs is not part of their typical game plan, and players raising air with the intention of making an under-full fold is too rare.

Potting all the way (preflop too!) is the standard and optimal way to play this hand BTW.

[Mendacious]

[ QUOTE ]
Potting all the way (preflop too!) is the standard and optimal way to play this hand BTW

[/ QUOTE ]

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
These micro PLO games are ultra-loose and are very passive postflop. A river check-raise is never a bluff here, and hence it's a laydown IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]BlueBear and Mendacious - Thanks for the replies.

In addition to a bluff, I was thinking somebody playing at this level (or maybe any level) might think jacks full of kings or even threes full of kings or trip kings with an ace kicker was a very strong winner here.

However, you know the pot limit game better than I do and your replies make good sense to me. There's simply no way to get around knowing your opponents and I admit I don't know them at this level.

Interesting that you both think potting before the flop is correct. I'd be afraid to lose everybody and end up with only six cents from the blinds. Seems a waste for such a nice starting hand, but then again, there's no way around knowing your opponents.

Buzz

[BlueBear]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be afraid to lose everybody and end up with only six cents from the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a good two-way hand, it's worth building a pot (at the slight risk of chasing them off) so that you have a much better possibility to get our entire stack in play by the turn/river if we flop a decent-to-monster hand.