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#31
07-07-2006, 12:27 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
Wait a minute. ANSWER organizes many anti-war rallies yet you characterize them as a very small fraction of the anti-war movement. Perhaps it is you who are being disingenuous for although true they represent a small fraction of those who oppose the war, they seem to be quite representative of those who fervently oppose the war, after all they are ORGANIZING the rallies Quads. [/ QUOTE ] This thread seems a little odd but... the people organizing a rally does not have to be representative of the people attending. A group of 50 people people can organize a rally attended by 1000's. The organizing group can have many different agendas and goals then the people who show up specificially for that rally. For instance: Let's say there is a socialist group of 100 people that oppose the war. And there are another 500,000 people unrelated to the socialist group who also oppose the war. They all come together at a war rally organized by the socialist group. Only an idiot would say that the 500,100 people are all socialists. 
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#32
07-07-2006, 12:32 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm genuinely confused anyway; what you're citing now would suggest that indeed, most rank and file attendees of the anti-war events have little to no interest in ANSWER's agenda. [/ QUOTE ] Well that would be speculation. I certainly don't think most of the attendees give a damn about these Stalinist causes, but that was never my claim. I simply said that these rallies were well-infiltrated or outright staged by Stalinist/Socialist and very dangerous groups, very far from anti-violent, countering HMK's contention that any anti-violence protest was OK. Period. [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, I don't know any American socialist group that would call itself Stalinist; almost all of them consider themselves Trotskyites or Maoists (and I hardly know of any that think of themselves Maoists, either) -- and that includes WWP. Characterizing groups like WWP into theoretical frameworks is a rather pointless endeavor anyway, as much of their work is merely action-orientated nonsense like their infiltration of anti-war rallies and establishing various front groups, as you cite. Calling them "Stalinist" sounds like you're reaching for a pejorative that is hardly necessary, given that groups like the WWP aren't taken very seriously anyway. Lastly, you didn't counter HMK's contention that any anti-violence protest was okay -- you attempted to make a case that the anti-war protests are ostensibly anti-violence but are in fact populated/run/organized by violent Marxists; but since you concede most of the attendees aren't interested in the Marxist causes you ascribe to the anti-war events, you seem to have contradicted yourself QED.
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#33
07-07-2006, 01:04 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
Well in my attempt to counter HMK I was simply suggesting that a non-violence rally operated/under heavy influence by violent statists of a supreme evil order is not OK. Again, I never indicated anything about the masses of people attending these things. Heck I even attended one in Philly, just to be part of the commotion and see what was going on.
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#34
07-07-2006, 01:49 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
Well in my attempt to counter HMK I was simply suggesting that a non-violence rally operated/under heavy influence by violent statists of a supreme evil order is not OK. Again, I never indicated anything about the masses of people attending these things. Heck I even attended one in Philly, just to be part of the commotion and see what was going on. [/ QUOTE ] And at the rate of attemdance inflation by the liberal media you counted for approximately 7.23 protestors in the final estimates. If you had been a celebrity you would have counted as 10.11 protestors...and you werent even there to protest.
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#35
07-07-2006, 01:54 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I don't know any American socialist group that would call itself Stalinist; almost all of them consider themselves Trotskyites or Maoists (and I hardly know of any that think of themselves Maoists, either) -- and that includes WWP. [/ QUOTE ] In my experience at Rutgers (for those of you who have never been, go watch P.C.U.), they tend to identify as "anarchists" or "libertarian socialists" or "Chomsky dicksuckers." Listening to their solutions is pretty entertaining [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#37
07-07-2006, 05:38 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
Any evidence supporting either of your claims? [/ QUOTE ] Many years of direct personal experience. I'd name specific names and post photos, but that would not be appropriate to this forum, so I guess you'll either believe me or you won't. I'll live either way. However, just to illustrate the point, let me give you one generic example. Since you cited a Democratic Underground thread previously, I'm sure you're familiar with the situation of right-wing trolls from sites like FreeRepublic.com who register for that site and then pose as "leftists" in order to post outlandish conspiracy theories to the site. They then use those same posts to try to attack the site as a haven for wackos. (One recent example was the user who posted under the name "seventhson", who spent every day for two years monkeywrenching that site on behalf of FreeRepublic.com. There are plenty of others, but I think the point is made. This tactic is well-established and well-known, and its practitioners border on the obsessive. Users at various right-wing websites actually brag about doing this stuff on a daily basis, so if you want an exhaustive list of examples I suppose the easiest way to get them is straight from the horse's mouth. Of course, since you clearly follow these right-wing websites, I find it impossible to believe that you're not already aware of this practice in pretty good detail, so, again, that brings us right back to the problem of your fundamental dishonesty.) q/q
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#38
07-07-2006, 07:33 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
And at the rate of attemdance inflation by the liberal media you counted for approximately 7.23 protestors in the final estimates. If you had been a celebrity you would have counted as 10.11 protestors...and you werent even there to protest. [/ QUOTE ] I thought that was called WMD math?
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#39
07-07-2006, 08:09 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Any evidence supporting either of your claims? [/ QUOTE ]Many years of direct personal experience. I'd name specific names and post photos, but that would not be appropriate to this forum, so I guess you'll either believe me or you won't. I'll live either way. [/ QUOTE ] So its far too much for you to post simple evidence to back up your wild conspiracy theory claims, but after posting exhaustive, irrefutable evidence to back up my simple claim, I'm clearly the one who is fundamentally dishonest. You make me sick. You're going on ignore.
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#40
07-07-2006, 08:13 PM
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Re: Anti-war movement a caricature of itself
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Any evidence supporting either of your claims? [/ QUOTE ]Many years of direct personal experience. I'd name specific names and post photos, but that would not be appropriate to this forum, so I guess you'll either believe me or you won't. I'll live either way. [/ QUOTE ] So its far too much for you to post simple evidence to back up your wild conspiracy theory claims, but after posting exhaustive, irrefutable evidence to back up my simple claim, I'm clearly the one who is fundamentally dishonest. You make me sick. You're going on ignore. [/ QUOTE ] what took you so long
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