~~~ OFFICIAL YANKEES 2007 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS OR BUST THREAD ~~~

[James282]

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even a-rod? im pretty sure the yanks are getting a great freaking deal only paying a-rod 17 mil a year

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You also need to factor in his portion of the luxury tax. Arod at $17m for the NYY costs more than Arod at $17m for any non-tax team. His true cost is closer to $21m or $22m.

anyways, his deal is far from "great" imo.

his 2007 VORP/cost: 29.3/ $20m

Hanley Ramirez: 24.9/$400k

in 2006 Hanley's VORP was higher than Arods.

now THAT is a great deal

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sure, but hanley wasn't signed as a free agent. you can't possibly go comparing values when teams just have the luxury of not paying young guys for what they are worth. when hanley signs as a free agent, then you can go comparing various 'deals' with him as a viable comparison.

[Scary_Tiger]

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even a-rod? im pretty sure the yanks are getting a great freaking deal only paying a-rod 17 mil a year

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You also need to factor in his portion of the luxury tax. Arod at $17m for the NYY costs more than Arod at $17m for any non-tax team. His true cost is closer to $21m or $22m.

anyways, his deal is far from "great" imo.

his 2007 VORP/cost: 29.3/ $20m

Hanley Ramirez: 24.9/$400k

in 2006 Hanley's VORP was higher than Arods.

now THAT is a great deal

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You can't compare free agents to second year players.

[adios]

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even a-rod? im pretty sure the yanks are getting a great freaking deal only paying a-rod 17 mil a year

[/ QUOTE ]

You also need to factor in his portion of the luxury tax. Arod at $17m for the NYY costs more than Arod at $17m for any non-tax team. His true cost is closer to $21m or $22m.

anyways, his deal is far from "great" imo.

his 2007 VORP/cost: 29.3/ $20m

Hanley Ramirez: 24.9/$400k

in 2006 Hanley's VORP was higher than Arods.

now THAT is a great deal

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That's really what it boils down to, how could that amount of money be spent on more production as a team? It doesn't seem to me that an astute GM could get a better bang for their buck, in that you might be able to put 3+ guys on your team that will plug more leaks etc. in both pitching and hitting for that kind of money.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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even a-rod? im pretty sure the yanks are getting a great freaking deal only paying a-rod 17 mil a year

[/ QUOTE ]

You also need to factor in his portion of the luxury tax. Arod at $17m for the NYY costs more than Arod at $17m for any non-tax team. His true cost is closer to $21m or $22m.

anyways, his deal is far from "great" imo.

his 2007 VORP/cost: 29.3/ $20m

Hanley Ramirez: 24.9/$400k

in 2006 Hanley's VORP was higher than Arods.

now THAT is a great deal

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sure, but hanley wasn't signed as a free agent. you can't possibly go comparing values when teams just have the luxury of not paying young guys for what they are worth. when hanley signs as a free agent, then you can go comparing various 'deals' with him as a viable comparison.

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well, it depends. The Yankees have made various strategic decisions to sign veteran FA's to top dollar deals, often times by relinquishing their right to pay rookies bottom dollar. the Red Sox did the same when they decided to trade for and pay Beckett big money instead of the future value of Hanley. Is it really apples-apples? not really - but specific decisions led both teams to their current situation - they both had the 'luxury' of paying young guys short money, but they relinquished that right for their own reasons. it's not like the Yankees never had the option of paying a rookie short money - they decided not to. the Red Sox have made some similar decisions.

[Scary_Tiger]

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even a-rod? im pretty sure the yanks are getting a great freaking deal only paying a-rod 17 mil a year

[/ QUOTE ]

You also need to factor in his portion of the luxury tax. Arod at $17m for the NYY costs more than Arod at $17m for any non-tax team. His true cost is closer to $21m or $22m.

anyways, his deal is far from "great" imo.

his 2007 VORP/cost: 29.3/ $20m

Hanley Ramirez: 24.9/$400k

in 2006 Hanley's VORP was higher than Arods.

now THAT is a great deal

[/ QUOTE ]

That's really what it boils down to, how could that amount of money be spent on more production as a team? It doesn't seem to me that an astute GM could get a better bang for their buck, in that you might be able to put 3+ guys on your team that will plug more leaks etc. in both pitching and hitting for that kind of money.

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K, we'll sign Gary Matthews Jr., Octavio Dotel, and Gil Meche.

It's not as easy as it looks. With theoretically an infinite payroll, obviously signing the best player at his position is the best move. This isn't the NFL. Obviously, giving A-Rod 8/200 this offseason would be dumb for the Marlins if they're going to keep their payroll sub-50 million. But if you have a 200 million payroll, it's a fine move.

[Triumph36]

KBZ -

c'mon now, when is the last time the Yankees had a prospect with the skill of Hanley Ramirez? I honestly can't remember - other than Cano and Wang, whom the Yankees kept. This is silly.

You have to judge free agent signings against other free agent signings - in which case the Yankees have done a decent enough job, with the notoriously awful exception of Carl Pavano (then again, the Red Sox' Matt Clement debacle is close).

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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c'mon now, when is the last time the Yankees had a prospect with the skill of Hanley Ramirez? I honestly can't remember - other than Cano and Wang, whom the Yankees kept. This is silly.

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ok, mb I'm being ridiculous, but I'm just thinking about this on a very macro level. Florida didn't have a prospect like Hanley until they got him in a trade. Some other teams could have traded for him. You have to give the Marlins credit for getting the right guy at the right time.

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KBZ -



You have to judge free agent signings against other free agent signings - in which case the Yankees have done a decent enough job, with the notoriously awful exception of Carl Pavano (then again, the Red Sox' Matt Clement debacle is close).

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if you want to judge how good one team is in FA vs how good another team is in FA, then sure. but again I'm just thinking about this on a more macro level - you ultimately want to judge how well an organization gets their team on the field, and FA is just one component of that. drafting and trading count as well, and I think it's wrong to think about each of these skills in a vacuum.

all of that said, I agree with Tiger that MLB baseball is not the NFL, and the idea of "value" for the Yankees is far different than it is for the Red Sox, and what the Red Sox consider "value" is different than any other team. etc etc. The Yankees don't need to get the max production/dollar spent, they just need to get max production. which is why the Arod deal is a fine deal for them, less so for any other team.

[Triumph36]

i agree with that, but given two things:

A - the Yankees have been drafting horribly - this has changed recently, but until recently, most of the prospects they shipped out in trade were subpar

and

B - the Yankees have enough money to make up for that

The A-Rod deal seems like a fine deal for just about anyone these days, considering what other free agents are being paid. Also, I don't remember how much of the deal they're actually paying for, which makes it more beneficial.

[adios]

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It's not as easy as it looks. With theoretically an infinite payroll, obviously signing the best player at his position is the best move.

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Then move him to third base and then there's the post season. ARods undoubtedly a great player and I like him alot actually but I think it's pretty clear that winning the whole thing is about more than one player albeit a great one.

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This isn't the NFL.

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No it's not and even if I concede that ARod is worth it that doesn't justify paying the kind of money for the production the Yankees are getting. I realize the Yankees can pay more money for players but it doesn't mean that they aren't wasting it or have to waste it.

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Obviously, giving A-Rod 8/200 this offseason would be dumb for the Marlins if they're going to keep their payroll sub-50 million. But if you have a 200 million payroll, it's a fine move.

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Giambi, Abreu, Damon, even Clemens too? Cmon. Can you honestly say that the Yankees are doing a good job in putting a team together? I think Zod has more or less nailed it.

[Scary_Tiger]

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Giambi, Abreu, Damon, even Clemens too? Cmon. Can you honestly say that the Yankees are doing a good job in putting a team together? I think Zod has more or less nailed it.

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Yes, gettings lots and lots of all stars is a recipe for success. The Yankees aren't below .500 because of the under performance of these guys. They're under .500 because they're fielding absolute garbage beyond these guys.

Nieves? Melky? Cairo? Phelps? Mientkiewicz? This is not a major league bench. These guys should be a lot further down on a depth chart of a 200 million team.

Igawa? Rasner? Karstens? DeSalvo? Wright? Clippard? These are not the starters that should be relied upon for a team with 200 million dollars to spend. Give Clemens the 10 starts that DeSalvo, Karstens, Clippard and Wright have taken and the Yankees are in a whole lot better shape.