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  #1  
Old 09-04-2007, 01:41 PM
Scarmiglio Scarmiglio is offline
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Default Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

Villain is in Cutoff. He's pretty solid (for Commerce) and his preflop raising range is tight - AQs+ JJ+. Everyone else it typical Commerce LP.

Here is in the BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Cutoff raises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

6 to the flop for 12sb - 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
sb checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, Cutoff raises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

5 to the turn for 11bb - 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
sb checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, Cutoff bets, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises...

FWIW - MP2 had already picked up his cards to toss them, so I only cared about Cutoff, Button, and SB. Can I make this raise for value, or is this spew?
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2007, 01:53 PM
KitCloudkicker KitCloudkicker is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

spew but its close. cant say i wouldnt do it once in awhile.
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:54 PM
Triantafylidis Triantafylidis is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

I like this line, if you figure they all call, you're adding 32 bucks to the pot (including yourself) on the turn. Which IMO isnt terrible unless obviously you can be drawing dead here, but that is player dependant/read dependant. I wouldn't make this play ALL the time, but its a good mix up to keep your image unpredictable. Adding 8 BBs to the pot can't be terrible here if you think all your outs are live. I think I c/f the river tho on a blank. No point in making a play, then it becomes purely a spew.
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:58 PM
fishyak fishyak is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

Just thinking this through... You are behind - with what, 15 outs? But only the straight flush outs are clean. Even so, with 3 callers, I think there is equity in your c/r because odds are all 3 will call. You can't say the same about a river c/r.
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:07 PM
Scarmiglio Scarmiglio is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

Assume that all my out are clean except for 9s - based on the other players body language I'm 95% sure that any 3, 8, or non-9 spade makes me a winner. I put the raiser on JJ+ and the other players on T9 - A9
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2007, 02:35 PM
gobbledygeek gobbledygeek is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

Why no 3bet on the flop, don't we have a fairly big equity advantage here against 4 opponents?

GcluelessnoobG
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2007, 03:19 PM
Scarmiglio Scarmiglio is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

Because I don't want to push anyone out of the pot. MP facing 2 bets would probably fold, cutoff is likely to cap, and I may lose either Button or SB for 2 more sb. It also gives me a chance to see the turn action for cheap. I'm in bad shape on the flop if anyone slowplayed 78 and players in this game will wait until the turn to pop it with the nuts.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:44 PM
gobbledygeek gobbledygeek is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

Does anyone else still 3bet the flop, cuz I know I do. Yes I may lose MP2, but Cutoff may not cap his overpair with so much aggression and even if he does the Button and SB are likely to still come along (they've both already coldcalled twice). Isn't being afraid of 78 seeing monsters?
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2007, 03:45 PM
KitCloudkicker KitCloudkicker is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else still 3bet the flop, cuz I know I do. Yes I may lose MP2, but Cutoff may not cap his overpair with so much aggression and even if he does the Button and SB are likely to still come along (they've both already coldcalled twice). Isn't being afraid of 78 seeing monsters?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you 3 bet are you barrelling any turn card?
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2007, 03:58 PM
gobbledygeek gobbledygeek is offline
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Default Re: Live 4/8 - c/r the turn for value?

[ QUOTE ]

if you 3 bet are you barrelling any turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Never. I know that "turns my hand face up" but I don't really care cuz (a) I got my money in while I had the advantage, (b) it's not as if I'm worried about one of 4 opponents bluffing me off my 7 high hand if I'm UI by the river and (c) most opponents I play with wouldn't know what I had even if I showed them my cards. Isn't pushing these edges a basic necessity to play winning small stakes poker?
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