New York Giants - Page 9

PokerFink · #81 08-10-2007, 05:19 PM

How can anyone spend significant time in football threads in this forum and not know what DPAR and DVOA are at this point?

Anyway, tight ends I would take before Shockey (ignoring age):

Gates, Gonzo, Heap, Winslow, possibly Witten, possibly Cooley if he counts as a TE. I don't think Shockey is that far, if any, ahead of LJ Smith or Crumpler either. That puts him somewhere in the 5-9 range.

Triumph36 · #82 08-10-2007, 05:38 PM

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How can anyone spend significant time in football threads in this forum and not know what DPAR and DVOA are at this point?

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pretty easy when you only have facile sports talk radio BS to bring to the table

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Anyway, tight ends I would take before Shockey (ignoring age):

Gates, Gonzo, Heap, Winslow, possibly Witten, possibly Cooley if he counts as a TE. I don't think Shockey is that far, if any, ahead of LJ Smith or Crumpler either. That puts him somewhere in the 5-9 range.

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Oh c'mon. Cooley and Witten and LJ Smith? Let's be real here. I'm not a huge Shockey fan and I think his career has certainly been a disappointment, but you're really saying Shockey is the worst TE in the division? I still think he's the best, but by a small margin.

Wow - Witten's got better numbers than I thought, I think I'll have to revise that. Crumpler is also better, IMO - but not Cooley or LJ Smith.

Tyler Durden · #83 08-10-2007, 05:59 PM

I also don't know what PECOTA and that other baseball bulshit is, but I don't care to.

Who will be throwing to Crumpler this year? I'd be loathe to take him ahead of Shockey in fantasy ball this year.

PokerFink · #84 08-10-2007, 06:45 PM

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How can anyone spend significant time in football threads in this forum and not know what DPAR and DVOA are at this point?

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pretty easy when you only have facile sports talk radio BS to bring to the table

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nh

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Cooley and Witten and LJ Smith? Let's be real here. I'm not a huge Shockey fan and I think his career has certainly been a disappointment, but you're really saying Shockey is the worst TE in the division? I still think he's the best, but by a small margin.

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DPAR numbers over the last three years (06-05-04-total)

Witten: 17.9 - 25.7 - 25.1 - 68.7
Shockey: 8.1 - 14.2 - 14.6 - 36.9
Cooley: 12.6 - 16.8 - 5.8 - 35.2
LJSmith: 8.7 - 2.8 - 8.4 - 19.9

Smith's numbers are admittedly a lot lower than I expected - I guess his problem with not being able to catch the [censored] ball shows up in the numbers. Although in my defense I said Shockey was better, just not by that much, and the gap is closer than those DPAR numbers. Smith's 2005 was terrible, his DVOA was significantly negative, but their 2004 was a lot closer than that; Shockey got thrown nearly twice as many balls. Their DVOA was about the same.

I'm also surprised how good Witten's numbers are; I expected him to be in the same range as Cooley and Shockey. I'm not surprised that Cooley is right there with Shockey; I really like him, but it's debatable whether we can count him as a TE anyway.

So I guess something like Gates, Gonzo, Heap, Winslow, Witten, and then Shockey, Cooley and Alge for the next three. Puts him 6-8.

PokerFink · #85 08-10-2007, 06:46 PM

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I also don't know what PECOTA and that other baseball bulshit is, but I don't care to.

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Ignorance is bliss?

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Who will be throwing to Crumpler this year? I'd be loathe to take him ahead of Shockey in fantasy ball this year.

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Because that's a great way to evaluate which player is better. Do we also penalize Heap for playing in a [censored] offense with [censored] quarterbacks?

VarlosZ · #86 08-10-2007, 06:52 PM

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I also don't know what PECOTA and that other baseball bulshit is, but I don't care to.

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That's essentially the same thing as saying "I also don't know what that 'reverse implied odds' bulshit is, and I don't care to."

In both cases it's fine if you don't want to get into that stuff, but by avoiding it you're hurting your ability to understand what's behind your results, and what's likely to happen in the future.

(Wow, that sounded really conceited.)

Tyler Durden · #87 08-10-2007, 11:02 PM

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(Wow, that sounded really conceited.)

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I wanted to quote the part of your post that I agree with.

Tyler Durden · #88 08-10-2007, 11:03 PM

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Who will be throwing to Crumpler this year? I'd be loathe to take him ahead of Shockey in fantasy ball this year.

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Because that's a great way to evaluate which player is better. Do we also penalize Heap for playing in a [censored] offense with [censored] quarterbacks?

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I'm not all that interested in who is the better football player. I am concerned with who will be the better fantasy player. I'm a Giants hater and I think Shockey is probably top 5 for both.

VarlosZ · #89 08-10-2007, 11:27 PM

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(Wow, that sounded really conceited.)

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I wanted to quote the part of your post that I agree with.

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Well if you don't know what PECOTA, DPAR, and DVOA are, how can you disagree with me about their relevance?

Triumph36 · #90 08-10-2007, 11:48 PM

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(Wow, that sounded really conceited.)

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I wanted to quote the part of your post that I agree with.

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Well if you don't know what PECOTA, DPAR, and DVOA are, how can you disagree with me about their relevance?

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because he's a fool? how anyone can discount the relevance of statistical analysis on a poker forum is beyond me.

i mean if you want to say 'i'm not interested in that', fine. it is fun to talk about players where everyone's drawing from their own experience/knowledge of that player. but if you're going to debate anything on this forum, those numbers will be used.

but he's just trolling the giants thread - there's a lot of other places you can ask about jeremy shockey's fantasy football value