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#1
03-26-2006, 02:34 PM
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Origin of IWTSTH?
There's are always a lot of posts regarding this rule. Then someone says it's supposed to be used to prevent collusion. Then someone else points out that it's not really effective in preventing collusion. Clearly, it is effective to gather information.
Does anybody definitely know where this rule came from? 
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#2
03-26-2006, 02:36 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
[ QUOTE ]
There's are always a lot of posts regarding this rule. Then someone says it's supposed to be used to prevent collusion. Then someone else points out that it's not really effective in preventing collusion. Clearly, it is effective to gather information. Does anybody definitely know where this rule came from? [/ QUOTE ] Read Bob Ciafone's 3 part article on this topic from 2005, Cardplayer archives. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#3
03-26-2006, 03:14 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Ciaffone states that the traditional rule is to prevent collusion, but doesn't source it.
Where does this rule come from? There's a lot of friction generated by this rule because of the implication of cheating when it's used. If the understanding of the rule were that I'm entitled to see the hole cards for information if I wish, I really don't see the problem. It might change how you play somewhat, but you're not going to become a winner or a loser based on that.
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#5
03-26-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
Conventional wisdom and broad consensus, in print, on the web, and in conversation, as well as common sense, suggests that the intent is to find collusion. As far as I can tell, a single person cites their age and experience to suggest otherwise. We should have Andy Fox chime in; I hear he's pretty old. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#6
03-26-2006, 03:54 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Ciaffone states that the traditional rule is to prevent collusion, but doesn't source it. Where does this rule come from? There's a lot of friction generated by this rule because of the implication of cheating when it's used. If the understanding of the rule were that I'm entitled to see the hole cards for information if I wish, I really don't see the problem. It might change how you play somewhat, but you're not going to become a winner or a loser based on that. [/ QUOTE ] People that have been around a while understand the rules. Poker was being played before anyone wrote down the rules. Written rules exist to tell the players that don't already know how to play what to do. Any rule that attempts to tell the players to do sosmething other than what they have always done is a bad rule.
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#7
03-26-2006, 04:27 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
For those who believe that they are the use of this rule is permissble to gain information I ask the follwoing question ---- if the purpose fo the rule is to allow this what is the purpose of the rule distinguishing between called bets and uncalled bets?
Why not allow a player to see any hand regardless of whether another player calls or (even if the hand you wanted to see called?
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#8
03-26-2006, 07:53 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
[ QUOTE ]
There's are always a lot of posts regarding this rule. Then someone says it's supposed to be used to prevent collusion. Then someone else points out that it's not really effective in preventing collusion. Clearly, it is effective to gather information. Does anybody definitely know where this rule came from? [/ QUOTE ] You might as well read Tommy Angelo's thoughts on IWTSTH. There's a related thread from that period on 2+2 (can't search 2+2 as fast as the three seconds it took to Google Tommy's article). You also might want to check this column by Mike O'Malley from Card Player. (for some reason this took twice as long to Google as Tommy's article [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) ~ Rick
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#9
03-26-2006, 08:17 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There's are always a lot of posts regarding this rule. Then someone says it's supposed to be used to prevent collusion. Then someone else points out that it's not really effective in preventing collusion. Clearly, it is effective to gather information. Does anybody definitely know where this rule came from? [/ QUOTE ] You might as well read Tommy Angelo's thoughts on IWTSTH. There's a related thread from that period on 2+2 (can't search 2+2 as fast as the three seconds it took to Google Tommy's article). You also might want to check this column by Mike O'Malley from Card Player. (for some reason this took twice as long to Google as Tommy's article [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) ~ Rick [/ QUOTE ] damn...beat me to it...I was just going to link Tommy's.
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#10
03-26-2006, 09:18 PM
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Re: Origin of IWTSTH?
[ QUOTE ]
You might as well read ... You also might want to check ... [/ QUOTE ] Both articles are by players who do not like the rule, and claim it was created to detect collusion, yet fail to provide any sort of proof. Which is what happens all the time.
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