Pooh-bah post: addressing two big SSNL questions.

[Pokey]

So 1500 is a magic number around here; I’m officially a Pooh-bah now. In keeping with a time-honored tradition from the limit forums, I’m making my “pooh-bah post” here; it’s supposed to be my attempt to share some of the wisdom I’ve gained over my time at the forums. I’ve got to apologize in advance, though; nothing you read here is going to be revolutionary or even new. This post synthesizes some of the ideas I’ve had in my time here, and as such it really is just me swiping the ideas of posters who are more clever than I am, repackaging it, and claiming it as my own. But hey -- at least I put forth THAT much effort (*cough*Quark*cough*).

There are two questions that recur frequently on these forums. Debates rage about them, and people support both sides of the arguments. I think I’ve finally come up with a conclusive answer to both questions, though. Here’s my thought:

Burning Question #1: Should I play TAG or LAG?
Pokey’s Answer: No.

Burning Question #2: Should I play 6-max or full ring?
Pokey’s Answer: No.

When you were first browsing through the forums, you probably noticed that there were three no-limit forums: this one for small-stakes players, one for mid-stakes players, and one for high-stakes players. Many of us are in SSNL because we consider ourselves to be in the learning stages of the game. Mind you, some posters here are pretty advanced beginners, but none of us is a true master of the game. Even the very best players in the forum will frequently post hands where they felt truly lost. So what is it that is unique to a SSNL poster, relative to a MSNL or HSNL poster? We consider ourselves at the earlier stages of the learning curve.

Here’s the biggest (and worst-kept) secret in poker: <font color="blue">you learn by doing.</font>

That’s why you shouldn’t play a TAG game OR a LAG game; you should play BOTH. When you’re playing your TAG game you’re building a particular set of skills:

1. Patience (critically important to a poker player)
2. Value betting (recognizing when your hand is best and pushing it as hard as you can get away with)
3. Selective aggression (knowing when to fight and when to run away)
4. Positional advantages (even a TAG plays much looser from LP than from UTG)
5. Nut-peddling (not so much “getting the nuts,” since that happens to everybody, but “extracting maximum value WHEN you get the nuts,” a critical skill to the TAG’s bottom line)
6. Large-ball (a TAG must know how to make the pots he wins as big as possible, since they will be relatively few in number)
7. Creating fights (when a TAG is going to showdown, he usually wants a big pot; manipulating the pot in that direction is crucial to the TAG’s long-term success)
8. Using a strong table image (misdirecting opponents into folding when your hand is actually weak based on your past play at the table)

When you’re playing your LAG game, you’re also building a particular set of skills, but it’s a different set:

1. Hand reading (in order for LAG to be profitable, you have to know when you’re beaten)
2. Bluffing and semi-bluffing (LAGs need folding equity to perform optimally; creating and using that equity is a vital part of the LAG strategy)
3. Small-ball (a LAG must know how to win many small pots, since he’s going to get eaten alive if he doesn’t pick up more than his fair share)
4. Reversed positional advantages (unlike the TAG, the LAG must use position for bluffing, leading at pots OOP and raising UTG to delude opponents into thinking he’s actually got a great hand)
5. Post-flop aggression (to win the pot, a LAG must typically BUY the pot; he can’t just wait around for a showdown, because his hand won’t hold up often enough)
6. Avoiding fights (LAGs don’t really want to build many huge pots, since their hands don’t survive often enough to make it profitable)
7. Using a weak table image (misdirecting opponents into calling when you actually hit a monster, based on your past play at the table)

Both of these sets of skills are vital to a great poker player; since our goal is to improve, we should build both skill sets, rather than devote ourselves exclusively to one play style. The result is that we become more versatile and creative players, capable of responding to changing table dynamics and images. The player with more than one “gear” can adapt far more easily than the player who only knows how to play one style effectively, and to develop those other “gears,” we need to practice them. Be a LAG. Be a TAG. Learn them both. Know their advantages and disadvantages. Then, use the appropriate style given the current table conditions.

A similar situation applies to the 6-max vs. full-ring debate. I often hear the 6-max players encouraging the full-ring players to switch to short-handed play in order to “learn fundamental poker skills.” That’s correct, but it’s only half the story: in truth, both 6-max and full-ring develop skills for a player, but they develop different skills. A 6-max player will quickly learn one set of skills:

1. Blind defense (you’ll be in the blinds proportionally more often)
2. Blind attacks (you’ll have proportionally more chances to steal the blinds)
3. Heads-up play (getting heads-up preflop is very frequent in short-handed games)
4. Small-ball (most of the time, nobody will have a big hand, so small pots will be the rule, rather than the exception)
5. Loose play (to avoid going like Broomcorn’s uncle, you’ll need to be involved in pots more frequently)
6. Pushing small edges (when smaller hands usually win, we can’t just wait for the stone-cold nuts before we start fighting for the pot)

On the other hand, a full-ring player is also developing a set of skills, but again, it is a different set:

1. Patience (winning hands come less frequently in full-ring, and you need to be capable of waiting for them)
2. Positional advantage (since there are many more positions at a full-ring table, you’ll need to be more aware of position when making your decisions)
3. Multi-way play (having three or more players see a flop is much more common at a full-ring table than in a short-handed game, and it requires special adjustments)
4. Hand protection and punishing draws (when you flop a hand, protecting it from drawing hands is a vital and fundamentally important skill. You don’t just want to fold them all out immediately; rather, you want to charge them an unfair price and have them still call you down)
5. Implied odds (when you flop a draw, you need to know when those draws will be worth a call and when they won’t; a realistic assessment of implied odds is crucial to the success of the full-ring player)
6. Pushing large edges (a full-ring player needs to know how to extract value from monsters, since those payouts will make up a larger fraction of his profits than they will for a short-handed player)

You’ll notice that the “TAG skills” and the “full-ring skills” seem quite similar, and the “LAG skills” and “six-max skills” are equally similar; the two sets tend to go together. That is, a good full-ring player is usually going to want to play a TAG style to reach maximum successfulness, and a good six-max player is usually going to want to play a LAG style to reach maximum successfulness. However, if you’ve played all four ways enough to have built up all four sets of skills, you’ll find many opportunities to change styles for a table, an orbit, or even just a hand. If you’re playing a TAG game at a full-ring table, but this hand is folded around to you in the SB, you need to apply your short-handed blind-stealing skills for this hand. If you’re LAGging it up at the six-max table but five players see a flop, you need to apply the TAG strategies for a multi-way pot in order to be most effective for this hand. If you’re at a full-ring table with three maniacs, don’t expect to be able to draw to hands. If you’re at a six-max table with five calling stations, don’t plan on making use of your (non-existent) folding equity.

I encourage everybody who is a six-max devotee to try full-ring for 1000 hands, playing a TAG game and keeping in mind the skills listed above. It might just improve your play by broadening your horizons and deepening your skill set. I also encourage everybody who plays full-ring exclusively to try six-max for 1000 hands, playing a more LAG style and paying attention to the listed skills for that game. Everybody in this forum is here to learn and improve, and the best way to learn in poker is by doing. Don’t keep doing what you always do and expect to learn quickly; put yourself in unfamiliar and uncomfortable situations and adapt – that’s the very best and very fastest way to truly improve your game.

[4_2_it]

tl;dr [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Big_Jim]

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1200 veteran
1600 Pooh-Bah
2500 Carpal \'Tunnel

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Good post though.

[Pokey]

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1600 Pooh-Bah


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Dammit. Never mind.... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[quarkncover]

Pokey-

Well done, this is sound basic advice for all up and coming SSNL'ers.

I particularly enjoyed the fact that you linked to my "Pooh-bah" post twice in your post. Dare I call this a premature poohbulation?

NH Pokey.

Regards,
Quarkncover

[orange]

lol at big jim's post. good post poke.

[Pokey]

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I particularly enjoyed the fact that you linked to my "Pooh-bah" post twice in your post.

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You're right; I edited out one. Calling public attention to your private shame shouldn't be done more than once per thread, eh? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ajmargarine]

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1600 Pooh-Bah


[/ QUOTE ]
Dammit. Never mind.... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Hurry up and post 90+ LOL's and "standard" in misc. threads throughout the forums.

...or this'll be a nice appetizer for the real Pooh-bah post to come.

[4_2_it]

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[ QUOTE ]
1200 veteran
1600 Pooh-Bah
2500 Carpal \'Tunnel

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[FishSticks]

This sounds like good advice, but given your relatively few posts I am inclined to take this with a grain of salt.

Alternatively, we can take up a flame war and I can help you spam your way to 1600 real quick-like.