Thoughts on PNL?

[Bramsterdam]

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What percentage of your opponents do you believe have figured out how you are sizing you raises?

[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't matter as long as it doesn't depend on our hand.

[pineapple888]

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The book actually has helped me. SPR gave me a nice structured framework with which to keep stack sizes in mind from the beginning and do a much better job of planning hands in a fashion that helps me avoid being faced with a difficult all-in decision that I'm not prepared for. It helped me to figure out exactly how to adjust my preflop range according to my opponents stack sizes. Commitment threshold has helped by defining a point where I need to look at the situation and decide whether or not I want the chips in the middle.

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Well, this part could be valuable, but it's really not very complicated (hint: don't play speculative hands against shallow opponents), and from what I've read from respected posters, the authors WAY overdo it trying to fit everything into their paradigm.

[Chargers In 07]

I haven't read the replies but I disagree Pokey. It helped me and I've been playing poker seriously for 4 years now. In fact since reading it I've been crushing the games I play. I really don't think that there are enough discussions about pot control, commitment, and how to bet to get your opponent all in on the river with betting on the flop and turn at the micro limits.

[pineapple888]

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I really don't think that there are enough discussions about pot control, commitment, and how to bet to get your opponent all in on the river with betting on the flop and turn at the micro limits.

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Well, when you get right down to it, that's pretty much all we discuss here in this forum. I mean, how can you even really play poker at a decent level without understanding these concepts?

[Chargers In 07]

I see your point Pineapple. Guess I shouldn't disagree in the small stakes forum. This book is good for inexperienced players and people who play micros. Better?

[Ranma4703]

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What percentage of your opponents do you believe have figured out how you are sizing you raises?

[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't matter as long as it doesn't depend on our hand.

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Yes it does. If our opponents realize we are raising a set amount based on limpers, and they are 2+2'ers, they probably think that we are a 2+2 as well, and will give us more respect. If they do not realize we are raising based on limpers, and instead think we are raising based on hand strength, they will give us more action when we raise less, even with a higher quality hand.
Just because we aren't giving away any information doesn't mean that they won't think they are getting information, and if they think they are getting information they might act on it, and if we do not consider that possibility we will not properly interpret their actions.

[Floyd13]

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What percentage of your opponents do you believe have figured out how you are sizing you raises?

[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't matter as long as it doesn't depend on our hand.

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Yes it does. If our opponents realize we are raising a set amount based on limpers, and they are 2+2'ers, they probably think that we are a 2+2 as well, and will give us more respect. If they do not realize we are raising based on limpers, and instead think we are raising based on hand strength, they will give us more action when we raise less, even with a higher quality hand.
Just because we aren't giving away any information doesn't mean that they won't think they are getting information, and if they think they are getting information they might act on it, and if we do not consider that possibility we will not properly interpret their actions.

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No it doesn't. First of all, we WANT them to respect us. That makes our life so much easier. Second of all, it's pretty easy to tell who is a solid player regardless of their PF bet size. Catcher used to minraise PF all the time, ZOMG he must be a donk. Come on. PF bet sizing is such a small part of the game I can't believe it's being debated seriously. Raising the same amount is unexploitable, while the same cannot be said for differing PF raises.

And one other thing. Why would you raise less with your big hands to encourage action? You want to give them better implied odds and bring more people into the pot? I haven't read the book, but if this is what they're advocating, this is truly a beginner's book. This crap will not work at MSNL and maybe not even at SSNL.

[jk3a]

It's a good book, very strong conceptually but has little use to someone who reads 2+2 everyday.

[carrotsnake]

There will never be a good book on NL imo, and this certainly didn't change my opinion

[tarheeljks]

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What percentage of your opponents do you believe have figured out how you are sizing you raises?

[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't matter as long as it doesn't depend on our hand.

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Yes it does. If our opponents realize we are raising a set amount based on limpers, and they are 2+2'ers, they probably think that we are a 2+2 as well, and will give us more respect.

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you are overestimating the significance being linked w/these boards.

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If they do not realize we are raising based on limpers, and instead think we are raising based on hand strength, they will give us more action when we raise less, even with a higher quality hand.
Just because we aren't giving away any information doesn't mean that they won't think they are getting information, and if they think they are getting information they might act on it, and if we do not consider that possibility we will not properly interpret their actions.

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if they are making use of incorrect info, then this is a very good thing for us. no info is better than bad info