Lack of disciplie and going against your instincts.

Unknown Soldier · #1 09-22-2007, 11:57 AM

For example:

I knew someone wasn't bluffing me earlier, but i made excuses and called down anyway. Anyone else have this problem, any way to combat it?

pureklas · #2 09-22-2007, 02:52 PM

Alot, see my bet/fold thread that you just commented on. I made it because i find myself bet with the intention of folding but then talking myself into a call. Feel like such a degen after each if these kind of pots.

Unknown Soldier · #3 09-22-2007, 04:08 PM

anything you do to stop it?

(btw, WA/WB means you either have very good equity vs him or very bad. For example AK on a A72r board. If you're ahead he has at most 3 outs, if you're behind you have at most 3 outs. Your example was not WA/WB because the board was drawy, if he has a flush draw he has 9 outs which has decent equity vs your top pair. On the river it's always WA/WB because you are either 100% to win or 0%.)

pureklas · #4 09-22-2007, 04:53 PM

Is there a particular book this was discussed in? I find I do it more when i'm tired but as yet no solution - hoping for some good ideas in this thread.

Yoshi63 · #5 09-22-2007, 06:05 PM

In general it's important to keep the player's entire line in mind. If a bet on the river doesn't keep any consistency with the way he'd played the hand up till now, it's often a bluff. When he's been representing a better hand on all streets and continues to fire on the river, he's usually serious. There are certain opponents capable of running bluffs like the seconds one, but DO NOT assume that everyone does this, because most people do not. Assume they have hands until proven otherwise... let other ppl do the calling down to figure out.

Unknown Soldier · #6 09-22-2007, 06:46 PM

thanks for the reply yoshi, but that was more poker strategy orientated, as opposed to a psychological view of the situation. (my mindset, and why i went against my instincts)

in the particular hand i played he raised my cbet, I had top pair in position, so i called. The turn was a terrible bluff card and he was a good player, so i knew he probably wouldn't bluff at it (so i had the strategy down cold). However, i reasoned to myself that there weren't many combos that beat me. (any excuse) And called down (lack of discipline, and went against my instincts - what I'm trying to cut down on). Sure enough he flopped a set.

That's my example in full, but it's a general problem I feel I have.

Flip-Flop · #7 09-22-2007, 10:38 PM

Good laydowns can only be made when you trust your reads and hand analysis completely, which you probably don`t atm.
My guess is you are in a "call a bet to check a read" phase and that is the most expensive phase of all.

I could be wrong too and it wont be a first time.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

KhalynYohrk · #8 09-23-2007, 12:10 AM

I can relate to what you are talking about big time. I've struggled a lot with going against reads and then having it affect my play afterwards. I feel like this is one area that seperates good players from great players, and the only real way to combat it is to have confidence in yourself and your reads and most importantly to follow through with them.

Unknown Soldier · #9 09-23-2007, 07:00 AM

yeah could well be a lack of confidence. Recently moved up to 600nl and haven't been running great.

Yoshi63 · #10 09-23-2007, 07:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for the reply yoshi, but that was more poker strategy orientated, as opposed to a psychological view of the situation. (my mindset, and why i went against my instincts)

[/ QUOTE ]

Try to recall all the previous times you've been in a very similar situation...

(in this case: you have a strong holding w/ limited hands you're 2nd best to, yet are facing massive strength from a player who is neither capapble of bluffing here nor overplaying a worse hand thinking it is good)

Forget about the times you snapped off a bluff on the river when villain's line was wack - that doesn't apply here. Try to only focus on this specific "feeling" (not in terms of supernatural instincts, but the "feeling" you get from being in this situation before). Now try to recal the times you called and were in fact beat, versus the times you called and were actually best.

A lot of times when I'm really focused on my playing, I will face this situation and my stomach literally "drops" as I contemplate a call here. I'm not a phychologist, but I believe it's my mind preparing for an uncomfortable situation (where I've now made a call I can't rationally support, and to no surprise my hand was no good).

What I'm trying to say is remember that not all river decisions (should I call or not?) are the same. Try to use your past experience to link this river spot to others similar ones from your past, and what the outcomes were.

Hope this helps a little. I think this is an interesting thread. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]