2K6m. bottom set facing a big river push.

[IRV]

I like turn value here.

[Rootabager]

i may call if i forgot what a straight looked like.

[wpr101]

Seems like a very tough river call. You said villian was a bad player... do this make you more or less inclined to call the push? For me if he was bad I would more likely think he has you beat... I can't see a weak player getting very tricky here with a big bluff. But I suppose it really depends on what type of weak player he was.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

[ QUOTE ]
Flawless,

Although i am sure you had your reasons, i don't think the turn clal can be justified with these stacks, too often a scare card comes that doesn't get you paid or makes you the second best hand, i really think you need to jack it up here.

As for the river, man it's so tough. I don't think folding is bad, but at the same time, if he has AQ or AT, which are as likely as anything until he pushes the river, he probably feels that the only viable hand you could have to beat him in J9, so may feel like he has the second nuts here.... Tough hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabe,

I dont like your thinking much here. I see no reason to raise this turn. Very few scare cards with this action are going to cause me to fold on the river, with typical action. In my opinion, the villain doesnt see this queen, with some weak hand or 3 barrel bluff hand, and go, wow if I overbet push here I might be able to represent a straight or a huge hand and cause my opponent to fold bottom set!

I like calling the turn for deception reasons here occasionally, and against some people who may fold second best hands to a raise, it is likely the correct decision. On the river, the overbet probably saved you money and I think you have to pitch your hand. Contrary to what TBG said, I really think a lot of those 2 pair hands are some of the most unlikely hands a villain could have here. This is so rarely a thin-ish value bet. There cant be many worse hands that play this way for value, maybe AQ or AT. Fold.

[aejones]

Against a regular or someone I'm tangling with, I would like a call on this turn to change it up a little and becuase I love fancy play. But against someone who I don't have a read on, I don't mind the flop call, but I'd much much much rather jack it up on the turn.

I think that the vote for a call it because we're so sickly under repped that he might shove because he thinks two pair is the nutters, but I would also say that is usually clouding our thinking process and he's got 97 or J9 (or maybe even a bigger set I guess) plenty often enough to make this a fold vs the overbet.

[ike]

edit: nevermind

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flawless,

Although i am sure you had your reasons, i don't think the turn clal can be justified with these stacks, too often a scare card comes that doesn't get you paid or makes you the second best hand, i really think you need to jack it up here.

As for the river, man it's so tough. I don't think folding is bad, but at the same time, if he has AQ or AT, which are as likely as anything until he pushes the river, he probably feels that the only viable hand you could have to beat him in J9, so may feel like he has the second nuts here.... Tough hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabe,

I dont like your thinking much here. I see no reason to raise this turn. Very few scare cards with this action are going to cause me to fold on the river, with typical action. In my opinion, the villain doesnt see this queen, with some weak hand or 3 barrel bluff hand, and go, wow if I overbet push here I might be able to represent a straight or a huge hand and cause my opponent to fold bottom set!

I like calling the turn for deception reasons here occasionally, and against some people who may fold second best hands to a raise, it is likely the correct decision. On the river, the overbet probably saved you money and I think you have to pitch your hand. Contrary to what TBG said, I really think a lot of those 2 pair hands are some of the most unlikely hands a villain could have here. This is so rarely a thin-ish value bet. There cant be many worse hands that play this way for value, maybe AQ or AT. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am shocked!
SHOCKED!
I didnt even think this decision was close...
With how underrepresented your hand, i cant believe so many are advocating a fold, and i DEF cant believe Strasser is advocating a fold!

[cero_z]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flawless,

Although i am sure you had your reasons, i don't think the turn clal can be justified with these stacks, too often a scare card comes that doesn't get you paid or makes you the second best hand, i really think you need to jack it up here.

As for the river, man it's so tough. I don't think folding is bad, but at the same time, if he has AQ or AT, which are as likely as anything until he pushes the river, he probably feels that the only viable hand you could have to beat him in J9, so may feel like he has the second nuts here.... Tough hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabe,

I dont like your thinking much here. I see no reason to raise this turn. Very few scare cards with this action are going to cause me to fold on the river, with typical action. In my opinion, the villain doesnt see this queen, with some weak hand or 3 barrel bluff hand, and go, wow if I overbet push here I might be able to represent a straight or a huge hand and cause my opponent to fold bottom set!

I like calling the turn for deception reasons here occasionally, and against some people who may fold second best hands to a raise, it is likely the correct decision. On the river, the overbet probably saved you money and I think you have to pitch your hand. Contrary to what TBG said, I really think a lot of those 2 pair hands are some of the most unlikely hands a villain could have here. This is so rarely a thin-ish value bet. There cant be many worse hands that play this way for value, maybe AQ or AT. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am shocked!
SHOCKED!
I didnt even think this decision was close...
With how underrepresented your hand, i cant believe so many are advocating a fold, and i DEF cant believe Strasser is advocating a fold!

[/ QUOTE ]

I can believe it, because they make some decent points, but I am calling here for sure. Contrary to Strassa's opinion, I do think you'll look at top two or Aces up a fair amount, here. I think you played it fine until the river; the only cards that kill your action/potentially scare YOU are a 7 and a 9--not too shabby. I'd call the river.

[EmpireMaker2]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but you have to think the other way around as well; he isn't FEARING J9 here, and he should, since it's a very likely hand for us, whereas QJ is much more unlikely for us to have given our flop call.

Also, given our passive line, I think he could very well be valuepushing AK should river be a K.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL yea dude people dont value push 2 pair like this.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]

I am shocked!
SHOCKED!
I didnt even think this decision was close...
With how underrepresented your hand, i cant believe so many are advocating a fold, and i DEF cant believe Strasser is advocating a fold!

[/ QUOTE ]

your style of play is throwing you off here -- just because you put in 2x pot on a bluff doesn't mean other people do it