Bellagio $2500 awkward stack spot.

Bond18 · #1 07-01-2007, 11:19 PM

I've only been at the table a couple rounds so i'm not really sure exactly how people play. We're 9 handed. I've been very tight as i'm TOTALLY card dead.

UTG is a 30ish Asian guy who seems average and on the tight side. The MP1 cold caller is online player Varico who knows who i am and we've played a bit together live.

UTG: ~12k
Varico: ~20k
Hero: 7400

Blinds 100/200. Hero is SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop: UTG raises to 600, folds to MP1, MP1 calls, folds to hero in SB.

I'm thinking raising about 4X his raise and if i get one caller jam most flops except something i'd really want to check like A22. Thoughts?

Hero raises to 2500, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Okay, was not expecting this whatsoever. Do i still have to jam almost any flop?

Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero?

luckychewy · #2 07-01-2007, 11:59 PM

i think pf is fine and probably optimal, i don't really see another way to play it. i would c/f now, utg probably has a pair almost always and i doubt he's folding it. not to mention varico behind him w/ whatever. btw doesn't varicos play suck with anything he has?

curtains · #3 07-02-2007, 12:01 AM

I'd just go allin preflop, and would do the same with any other hand I raise. The reason I don't like smaller raising in this spot, is because there is no bluff/weaker hands that it would make sense to do that with. Because of this, if you plan to go allin with stuff like AK, QQ, JJ etc, everytime you make a smaller raise, you automatically have AA-KK. Adding random bluff hands into the mix seems too exotic to me when facing an UTG raiser.

I suppose that raising to 2500 with every hand you reraise is also a viable strategy, since your range will generally be so tight that you don't mind action. It's a shame that you do mind action with AK and that AK is the hand you actually have, although this will probably be your hand about half the time in this spot (assuming you will flat call with JJ).

Of course the above stuff is just some random theoretical garbage. Probably its safe to just choose whatever strategy you think makes the most sense for your hand. I like to just move allin in these spots, especially since I know that I would also do so with QQ and probably KK, so that they are making a clear mistake if they put you on AK and call with JJ/TT or whatever. Also they may often fold AK, because they will assume you never have anything but AK or a pair.

Anyway I'd probably check/fold on the flop, almost no chance you have the best hand (Maybe 25% equity) and also very little chance your opponents will fold.

djk123 · #4 07-02-2007, 12:08 AM

Is shoving pre bad? I might've just done that.

I think I would've raised a little more considering you're oop. I think i might just check/fold. Arent their ranges made up mostly by pairs? And i would think you are getting looked up here by a mid pair. But i could def see pushing too. sucky spot.

renodoc · #5 07-02-2007, 12:20 AM

your stack is healthy for this spot in the tourney, right?

I think PF is fine, but I could see the arguement for pushing since given your stack you aren't likely able to fold if one of them pushes over your 2500. OTOH, doesn't shoving 7400 over this 1500 pot scream weakness or "I have TT, JJ, AK or air" Everytime I do this, UTG calls with AA....

On the flop I think any bet is spewing.

Bond18 · #6 07-02-2007, 01:08 AM

K guys i'll advance this hand.

Flop:
Hero thinks for 10ish seconds and checks, UTG quickly checks, Varico quickly checks.

Turn: Td
Hero?

Nobody seems really interested and i think i could get some credit for checking a bit pair on that flop and then jamming. Do you like check or jam here?

renodoc · #7 07-02-2007, 01:47 AM

Damn Bond, my original response had everyone checking the flop, and then one of the 25 cards in the deck that makes you like your hand better comes on the turn. This isn't one of them though, and I would check again.

Mr.WeakTight · #8 07-02-2007, 02:21 AM

I don't think anyone's going to give you credit when you didn't c bet the flop. i'd check - fold again and probably do the same on any non-ace, non-king river; hope to get to showdown and that ace high is good.

ianisakson · #9 07-02-2007, 03:39 AM

this is a really strange hand and a prime example of why you never EVER raise ~1/3 of your chips pf, jam or flat call preflop.

Newt_Buggs · #10 07-02-2007, 04:15 AM

Shoving preflop is almost clearly better IMO to the line that you planned on taking. With your line you are essentially allowing many hands to freeroll against you and gain implied odds versus your hand. If UTG has a hand like JJ and decides to call your reraise then when you miss he will always get your stack and when you hit he will sometimes be able to get away from his hand and save himself some chips. Shoving removes this advantage from him.