Hand Simulator

lifeskills · #1 07-20-2007, 07:24 AM

Did anyone else see the wsop $2500 buy in NL holdem final table with gavin smith. He made a $500 prop bet with another player Ive seen at final tables based on what is the better hand 8-2 hearts vs 9-5 os. How can these guys be serious players if they dont know the difference of those two hands? Was that a joke?

lifeskills · #2 07-20-2007, 07:35 AM

they finally called one of the producers to run a hand simulator to find out that 9-5 os is a better hand than 8-2 of hearts and gavin won the bet that he took based on assumption.

Dissolved · #3 07-20-2007, 08:51 PM

That was pretty interesting for ESPN to show that on tv. I'm sure about of people that don't know odds would think 8h2h would be favored over 9c5d preflop. Basically 60/40.

Seany Gee · #4 07-20-2007, 09:02 PM

whilst i agree that the math of poker is important, this question relating to these 2 hands would rarely be an issue at any serious level

i thought it was fun to watch, prop bets really catch peoples imagination

bogey1 · #5 07-23-2007, 11:32 AM

What amazed me was 2 players at a final table didn't know. Well, maybe Gavin did and didn't let on so he could take the correct side of the prop bet.

But come on...95 vs 82? Trivial. The top card is usually going to play. Now, 42o vs 32s, that'd be more interesting since both are playing the board if they don't hit, so the question becomes which hits more? Does the suitedness of 32 overcome the times 4 and 3 both hit for pairs?

KingOtter · #6 07-23-2007, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What amazed me was 2 players at a final table didn't know. Well, maybe Gavin did and didn't let on so he could take the correct side of the prop bet.

But come on...95 vs 82? Trivial. The top card is usually going to play. Now, 42o vs 32s, that'd be more interesting since both are playing the board if they don't hit, so the question becomes which hits more? Does the suitedness of 32 overcome the times 4 and 3 both hit for pairs?

[/ QUOTE ]

This must be a serious forum because nobody has pointed out that 95o and 42o can make 2 flushes instead of just one, and so are clearly superior.

bogey1 · #7 07-23-2007, 04:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What amazed me was 2 players at a final table didn't know. Well, maybe Gavin did and didn't let on so he could take the correct side of the prop bet.

But come on...95 vs 82? Trivial. The top card is usually going to play. Now, 42o vs 32s, that'd be more interesting since both are playing the board if they don't hit, so the question becomes which hits more? Does the suitedness of 32 overcome the times 4 and 3 both hit for pairs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, curiousity got the better of me.
42o beats 32s by a hair (assume sharing no suits).
cards %win %lose %tie EV
4s 2c 27.50 27.26 45.23 0.501
3h 2h 27.26 27.50 45.23 0.499

Interestingly, 52o loses to 43s. It's not until you get to the feared 72o that it pulls ahead of 43s.
cards %win %lose %tie EV
5s 2c 36.27 43.85 19.88 0.462
4h 3h 43.85 36.27 19.88 0.538

Slim Pickens · #8 07-23-2007, 06:20 PM

I'd just like to point out there are different ways of ranking hands. For example, A5o is a 57.70% favorite against a random hand, whereas A6o is only a 57.68% favorite. Run head to head, A6o is a 57.70% favorite against A5o.

82s has 16.96% pot equity against 95o and three random hands, whereas the 95o only has 16.26%, but 95o is a 60/40 favorite heads-up.

Rottersod · #9 07-23-2007, 06:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
they finally called one of the producers to run a hand simulator to find out that 9-5 os is a better hand than 8-2 of hearts and gavin won the bet that he took based on assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it a producer or was it BJ Nemeth of Pokernews.com?

Rottersod · #10 07-23-2007, 06:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Interestingly, 52o loses to 43s. It's not until you get to the feared 72o that it pulls ahead of 43s.
cards %win %lose %tie EV
5s 2c 36.27 43.85 19.88 0.462
4h 3h 43.85 36.27 19.88 0.538

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you surprised that suited connectors would be a favorite against a 52o?