Gross spot with 9's

[swifttarrow]

Need an opinion on a 3/6 hand, live game. Game is quite loose (5-6 limpers on average), but hyperagressive when I sit down (tons of capped pots on the flop).

I'm in EP3 at a 10 handed table with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. EP1 limps, I limp, MP1 MP3 limp, cutoff limps, button limps, sb completes, bb checks. (literally 7 or 8 to the flop, if my memory is right).

Question: should I raise? (unlikely to thin the field by much, if at all)

Flop is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Sb bets, bb folds, EP1 folds, I raise (???), MP1 calls, MP3 instant 3 bets, cutoff caps even faster, button calls (not sure on that one), sb folds. I call. At least 4 to the turn, maybe 5.

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, cutoff raises, button folds, I fold (???), MP1 calls, MP3 goes all in for 13 total, all call.

River: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I throw up a little inside)

Results in white:
<font color="white"> MP1: 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
MP3: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2nd card unknown
cutoff: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
</font>

Opinions? Simple pot odds fold? Players have been mostly straightforward in the game. I did not notice that MP3 had 13 chips left until after he was all in. I put everybody on about the hand they hand (one with a FD, one with either a flopped set or two pair, one with a straight draw or made straight). Should I raise on the flop? preflop?

[jesse8888]

I raise this PF. On the flop, I raise also. When it's 2 back to me on the flop, I pretty much have to call, although I probably shouldn't When the worst card in the deck hits on the turn, I am outta there. You've got one clean out. NH.

[swifttarrow]

Can I ever call two cold on the turn unless an 8 or 9 hits?

[jesse8888]

Obviously it depends on how big the pot is. If the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] came off the deck, you could give yourself maybe 4 outs (the 3 non spade 8s...and like 1 out for somehow spiking two pair and it being good or spiking a 9 and nobody having a straight), so you could call if the pot was utterly ginormous (20+ big bets)

Without raising PF, it's almost certainly not going to be that big.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise this PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if I raise this preflop. If you're seeing a lot of multi-way capped pots on the flop, this feels like the sort of hand which is going to face annoying reverse implied odds scenarios where the betting is going to force you off the best hand too often. If the game were less wild on the flop or if a raise had a chance of knocking players out, then I would raise. As described, I wouldn't mind playing 99 mainly for set value.

[ioangu]

I think not raising preflop in this kind of game is a mistake. When you can expect many coldcallers behind you and aggressive action on all streets, then you can play it for set value by raising and then reevaluating on the flop, when you dont hit your set and the board doesnt look threatening, if you want to proceed by staying the aggressor or folding. By limping you give up too much, I think.

The Flop: You are getting ca. 13:1 to call the cap. IMO this is a fold. Someone could have 89 already, so even if you hit, you might end up split the pot. Anybody with a T9 will still be there on the turn. Somebody with two pair or a set is beating you already. You dont have one clean out, and there actually are only 2 cards in the whole deck, that will be blanks on the turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . I would have folded right there.

[fuzz66]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if I raise this preflop. If you're seeing a lot of multi-way capped pots on the flop, this feels like the sort of hand which is going to face annoying reverse implied odds scenarios where the betting is going to force you off the best hand too often. If the game were less wild on the flop or if a raise had a chance of knocking players out, then I would raise. As described, I wouldn't mind playing 99 mainly for set value.

[/ QUOTE ]


yea, you wanna play those with 2-3 people at most for a raise OOP and that aint happening here. i dont mind limping either.when its 2 more back to you on the flop, i think you fold. your two nines are tainted, and more than likely a split with turn red 8, and the other black 8 is no good.

[One Outer]

In the game as described, I suppose if you don't have a lot of confidence in your postflop play you can limp. Even in this game I raise this, oh, about 500% of the time.

I don't call two cold on the turn, though.

[fuzz66]

just curious what raising preflop here in a game like this without position accomplishes?

[mikeca]

[ QUOTE ]
just curious what raising preflop here in a game like this without position accomplishes?

[/ QUOTE ]

In most games raising from early position will thin the field some, although it did not appear to here. This is also a raise for value. While 99 does not win as often as large pocket pairs it still has a small equity edge. Raising this from early position also widens your raising range. If you flop a set here, you are much more likely to get lots of action from one pair and two pair hands, because they will tend to put you on Ax with x large or a bigger pocket pair. This may also get you more action on later early position raises because they saw you raise 99.