Flopped nut full vs tough villain, deep ($5/5)

[sqwisssssss]

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Oh and...

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This would be a lovely hand to 3bet, but I wouldn't 3bet this guy in this spot with AAKKds or 89TJds, or any hand to be honest - I'm not trying to isolate the good players and force out the weak players, I want the weak players to come in for a discount!

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.. is a pretty bad line of thinking. Most of the weak players will come in regardless so you're basically giving up before the hand even started unless you flop big.

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i think this is one of the most important things linked to any form of poker.

you MUST 3 bet with those type of hands. it helps define your hand and increase the percentages of your hand holding up and ultimately adds value to the hand.

its kind of like having a perfect diamond and then selling it for under market value. i call this "disrespecting monster hands"

to not 3 bet with these hands is absolute disaster.

[wazz]

I don't know what to say, man, other than that my preflop game is better than yours.

[sqwisssssss]

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I don't know what to say, man, other than that my preflop game is better than yours.

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well, i wouldnt deny that all aspects of your game is better than mine........

but i cant see how smooth calling raises with monster hands are ever a good idea.

i have hand histories of my plo game on ftp. its just sitting there. maybe i can send them to you, wazz, and you can tell me about the holes in my game.

i would certainly like to know where i stand when it comes to plo. if you would be interested in taking a look, i would greatly appreciate it.

is there a way that you could take my hand histories and run them through your poker tracker?

thanks.

[Big Dave D]

Rempel,

I agree with what you are saying about the other QQ hand, which I really didn't like at all. Although I would reraise with this particular QQ hand vs *everyone* I don't think just calling is that bad a play. The reasoning behind just calling is the bad thing.

Considering <font color="green">*****</font> was being backed only a month or so ago, unless he found $50,000 on the floor, he is either rushing, or has discovered my old friend, winner's tilt. I suspect that explains more than some of this stuff.

gl

bdd

<font color="green">No names, please. Write somebody a private message if you have a suggestion for them, please.
.
Buzz</font>

[Ribbo]

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Rempel,

I agree with what you are saying about the other QQ hand, which I really didn't like at all. Although I would reraise with this particular QQ hand vs *everyone* I don't think just calling is that bad a play. The reasoning behind just calling is the bad thing.

Considering <font color="green">*****</font> was being backed only a month or so ago, unless he found $50,000 on the floor, he is either rushing, or has discovered my old friend, winner's tilt. I suspect that explains more than some of this stuff.

gl

bdd

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It's the reason he needed backing the last time. Playing above his roll and refusing to show good bankroll management.
He may not necessarily lose his money this time, but he is giving himself the best possible chance to do so.

[Kala1928]

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Against weak players you should be willing to play relatively cheap pots preflop so you can realise your greater postflop edge later in the hand. Against strong players you want to get as much out of your positional advantage as possible by reraising preflop

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This is just silly.

Its good to 3bet to isolate weak/bad players.
Its not "increasing your positional advantage" when you reraise preflop.
By 3betting a good opponent when weak players are yet to act behind you effectively just shut everyone out of the pot except the initial raiser, unless someone wakes up with even better hand. Which is bad.

[wazz]

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Rempel,

I agree with what you are saying about the other QQ hand, which I really didn't like at all. Although I would reraise with this particular QQ hand vs *everyone* I don't think just calling is that bad a play. The reasoning behind just calling is the bad thing.

Considering <font color="green">*****</font> was being backed only a month or so ago, unless he found $50,000 on the floor, he is either rushing, or has discovered my old friend, winner's tilt. I suspect that explains more than some of this stuff.

gl

bdd

<font color="green">No names, please. Write somebody a private message if you have a suggestion for them, please.
.
Buzz</font>

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Sir, I've heard via Dave Gardner that you are a knowledgeable man and one to be respected, and his opinion always goes in my book. However, in this situation, I can't just defer to yours. As I say again, the QQ reraise is mostly a function of the tables I'm playing and the idea that I can achieve a bigger edge given my exact stack size by jamming. It may not be correct, but as you saw I got a sizeable edge that I may not have been able to play with postflop. It somehow got two people to play massively badly against me and stack sizes postflop were perfect to take advantage of it. The lack of a 3bet here is only a function of 'I don't want to discourage an overlay from the bad players so that I can get it HU in a reraised pot, with position or not, with a good player.' I don't see what's so hard to understand about that logic; it's not my own, in any case, I believe it's Caro's. What do I gain by a 3-bet? It tells him 'I have a nice hand' while all I know about his is that he was willing to raise pre and call a reraise, which given how deep we are he might do with his whole raising range. I don't gain bupkes other than a bigger pot in position, which I agree is worth something, but perhaps lose a small amount by making a raise which is in accordance with the fact that I have a very playable big pair and have no info on his hand.

I may well be 'rushing', and I'm sure there is a small part of 'winner's tilt', but my preflop game is still one of the best around, not that that counts towards a whole hell of a lot, and I really don't appreciate you talking about me in my own thread without addressing me directly. In any case, my own handle on how I'm playing is accurate enough that I don't need criticism from you that is based on two hand histories, when I don't even think you're right.

[wazz]

And how the hell do any of you know or purport to know what my roll is? Would it be any matter to you if I had just found $50k on the floor? Do I need 100 buyins at my level to be unlikely to go broke? LOL

[Big Dave D]

Wazz,

I'm not quite sure how you connected me to Dave G, but say hi to him for me. I played him every week probably for the best part of a decade.

I wasn't too happy with the tone of the post I made. Unfortunately, I either tend to write very long winded, i.e. blog and Card Player, or very short to the point of rude. And I did come over as a bit of a [censored]. So for that I apologise. I don't come here to deliberately antagonise.

As to the hands in question, I did say that I thought the actually hand here was played okay. As to the other, well, I still think you are being too results orientated. If you had a smaller stack fine, but it was just too large and you were fortunate to be so dominant on the flop.

The bankroll stuff is dependent on whether you are a pro or not. If you are, then I would say 40-50k is what is required to play $2-5 PLO for sure. The "winners tilt" thing was a jibe at myself. I forget that most here weren't around 2 years ago when I set fire to 50k in two months, when 5-10 and the new 10-20 were the biggest games online. Also, you mentioned the bankroll/backing stuff yourself. If you don't want people to speculate then you shouldn't really put that stuff up. I've been effectively poker busto for a chunk of time now, simply because I pissed away the very reasonable amounts I won last year in the real world. So I know what its like scrabbling around. Anyway, good luck and all the best.

Dave

[RoundTower]

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Although I would reraise with this particular QQ hand vs *everyone* I don't think just calling is that bad a play.

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Wow I certainly wouldn't reraise here against everyone, far from it, and I expected you to be nittier than me in this spot.