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  #11  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:55 PM
mookboi mookboi is offline
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Default Re: What?

Shove turn as played.
Although if I've been running like you have, I would just fold to reduce varience.
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  #12  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:55 PM
Quester Quester is offline
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Default Re: What?

Push turn.
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  #13  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:56 PM
sightless sightless is offline
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Default Re: What?

call flop
shove turn
seems easy?
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  #14  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:58 PM
ama0330 ama0330 is offline
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Default Re: What?

I folded the flop, I just fabricated the turn as an example of how bad it is to just call on the flop
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  #15  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:59 PM
clowntable clowntable is offline
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Default Re: What?

Here's what my thought process would probably look like
1) Look at pot/stack ratio and our hand
Ratio is < 5:1, pretty much excellent for a TP2K kind of hand -> We can felt it

2) Look at villains ranges and board texture
Pretty drawy board with two possible gutshots and a FD out there. The As makes the FD unlikely to be to the nuts (I don't think it matters at these levels since flush = nuts)

We don't really know much about the ranges of villains. 64/3 can have close to any two depending on how liberal he calls when his limp was raised (some people never fold once they have invested money etc), note that CO got good odds to call once MP had called so his range should be a little wider
No VPIP/PFR% for the other guy and we don't know if they raise any PP or limp the small ones.
I'm willing to put both of them on
a) Small PPs say 22-66/77
b) Suited connectors of sorts
c) Ax and Axs hands where x < T/J (as they usually should have raised, especially CO)
b) Any two suited cards for some villains
CO is less likely to have Ax or a PP here if he is a good player since he'd probably raise that hoping to pick up blinds+limpers money
Small PPs are least likely for both since most people tend to raise them

Options:
1) Raise the donkbet (minraise + push on turn if called) - my usual line since donkbet = weakish middle pair kind of hands a lot of times (assuming non thinking player). However if I have no other read a pot sized donkbet into a 3 way pot is highly unusual.
The usual weakish ones are between 1/2 and 2/3 the pot

2) Call - I'd do this only to bet if a spade comes on the turn. Big donk bet on 2 flush boards seems to mean "ZOMG I have a hand and don't want to get drawn out on". If you have a read that villain is afraid of flushes hitting and weakish + able to lay a hand down you can go this route.
If the third player calls as well I probably just check/give up on the turn

What beats us:
55 (99 is unlikely as he would have raised PF, 95 is unlikely ubless suited), A5, A9 (AK is unlikely since he would have raised)
What we want villain to have:
A2, A3, A4, A6, A7, A8, AT, AJ
Also possible:
3s2s, 4s3s, 7s6s, 8s7s, 9sXs

note: With a pot to stack ratio of < 5:1 I really don't mind felting this. Once we call we may or may not be commited anyways
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  #16  
Old 09-17-2007, 02:01 PM
ama0330 ama0330 is offline
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Default Re: What?

[ QUOTE ]
call flop
shove turn
seems easy?

[/ QUOTE ]

So youre calling the flop to make sure the FD doesnt hit?
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  #17  
Old 09-17-2007, 02:01 PM
Hail Eris Hail Eris is offline
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Default Re: What?

I think either fold flop or call flop and jam most turns are ok. Raising flop sucks because we want the donk to overcall.
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  #18  
Old 09-17-2007, 02:07 PM
ama0330 ama0330 is offline
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Default Re: What?

[ QUOTE ]
With a pot to stack ratio of < 5:1 I really don't mind felting this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see it that way, we are 100bb deep, we are risking our entire stack, and we are likely to be headsup ie. winning a pot of not much more than 200bb. As far as Im concerned this would still be "playing a weak wa/wb hand for stacks"
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  #19  
Old 09-17-2007, 02:26 PM
clowntable clowntable is offline
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Default Re: What?

Ok so you only raise PF to pick up the blinds+limpers money PF or to take it down with a cbet?
What was your plan for the hand if both players call (which is quite common)?

Are you willing to give up TP2K every time you face agression?
Do you think a PS donk bet is more scarry than a CR in this spot because the CR is a FD often?

This hand is quite interesting because this is the kind of spot where I tend to have problems, too.
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  #20  
Old 09-17-2007, 02:50 PM
Hail Eris Hail Eris is offline
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Default Re: What?

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so you only raise PF to pick up the blinds+limpers money PF or to take it down with a cbet?
What was your plan for the hand if both players call (which is quite common)?

Are you willing to give up TP2K every time you face agression?
Do you think a PS donk bet is more scarry than a CR in this spot because the CR is a FD often?

This hand is quite interesting because this is the kind of spot where I tend to have problems, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The more I think about this hand the more I'm inclined to stack off and look for a line to get the most money in. Obviously we're not worried about the fish, but we do want him to come along with 2nd pair and Ax and whatnot. And CO's potsize donk looks retarded here, because this spot was made for a C/R with any hand that can beat AQ. I think this bet is air/draw/some stupid [censored] like AT most always.
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