NL50 - KK weird spot

Keitan · #1 09-13-2007, 11:20 PM

Villain is 27/16/1

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($54.80)
CO ($101.55)
Button ($48.75)
SB ($62.25)
Hero ($119)
UTG ($52.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $7.1, Button calls $4.60.

Flop: ($13.95) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8.7, Button calls $8.70.

Turn: ($31.35) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $33.45 (All-In), Hero ???

bknollenberg · #2 09-13-2007, 11:24 PM

what's weird about this? he probably has an ace, but by checking the turn you handed him leverage on a silver platter and put yourself in this spot. i bet / fold the turn.

is it wrong that i actually read him for a set / turned boat here? seems like a good play, because you initially read him for the obvious A, but he could be putting you on a hand like AK.

C4LL4W4Y · #3 09-13-2007, 11:26 PM

bleh, sometimes i check flop....idk, i'm pretty tempted to call here. most players would check behind that turn with an ace and hope to snap off some value on the river. i guess it depends on how bad he is...the worse, the less i call.

Keitan · #4 09-13-2007, 11:45 PM

I really don't see b/f as an option here. On the turn I've already put in $15 of the $48 effective stack. If I bet say $20 on the turn, and then villain shoves am I really going to fold getting 13:83 / 7:1ish ???

traz · #5 09-13-2007, 11:52 PM

I usually check the flop

Kasane · #6 09-13-2007, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
bleh, sometimes i check flop....idk, i'm pretty tempted to call here. most players would check behind that turn with an ace and hope to snap off some value on the river. i guess it depends on how bad he is...the worse, the less i call.

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problem is, this is not a good player. I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion, just saying he could have an ace, but not know that he's better off checking. Pushing seems odd, but then, what else is he going to do? Bet 1/2 pot?

Bet/fold this turn can't be done. We'd be committed at that point...

Keitan · #7 09-14-2007, 12:01 AM

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I usually check the flop

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Pls could you explain. Do you mean after 3betting and OOP with any holding?

Keitan · #8 09-14-2007, 12:08 AM

I've been at the table with villain for over an hour and he seems competent/decent/thinker.

Not many have given an answer as to whether they call or fold the turn. Tho some have said they check flop (pls explain this) which def changes how the hand plays out, but as played who calls or folds the turn??

edit: leading/shoving turn is just bad im assuming

traz · #9 09-14-2007, 12:12 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
I usually check the flop

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Pls could you explain. Do you mean after 3betting and OOP with any holding?

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With an ace on board, yes. KK/QQ turns into a bluff and AK has 2 more streets to get a guys stack anyways.

As played I fold turn. I don't think QQ pots the turn

Edit-- I mean, if you think a guy will call with QQ on the flop then betting is fine, but I just think people should think about why they're betting and not just autobet

Keitan · #10 09-14-2007, 12:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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I usually check the flop

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Pls could you explain. Do you mean after 3betting and OOP with any holding?

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With an ace on board, yes. KK/QQ turns into a bluff and AK has 2 more streets to get a guys stack anyways.

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OK that makes sense. If you don't mind couple more questions.. How often does villain bet if checked to in this situation? Does he usually bet with certain holdings? Are you always c/f with KK/QQ? Obviously somewhat opponent dependent.. but assume unkown after the 3bet pot, and you're OOP.