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  #11  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:40 PM
levAA levAA is offline
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Default Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?

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Fold pf


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Really...115BB on the button? Also, does anyone raise this flop? I've been playing live maniacal cash games for the last 6 months so my bearings may be off. With that weak lead, I raise the flop. And I take the free river.

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I think that's the right line.

Preflop call with AJ that deep is fine of course, but the flop is where you should have raised.

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I don't get this at all. What are we possibly folding out on that flop with a raise in a $10? Also, does anyone 3bet pre? We're OTB with what is probably the best hand. I usually 3bet this pre, then take it down with a cbet on the rag flop that usually comes.

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1.) AJ is too weak for a 3-bet. This is usually a hand you fold to a preflop raise, while we are here nearly 100BBs deep so calling in position is fine.

2.) You are last to act so c-betting as a Go'n'go won't work.

3.) 3betting to lets say 450 lets you cross the commitment threshold, which is not what you want with a hand as week as this. If you hit an ace on the turn you will often stack off to a better ace.

4.) On the flop we have to decide what is our plan. Keep the pot small and try to hit our draw or try to take it down immediately with a semibluff. AS our draw is not very strong (if we hit an 8 on the turn we might stack off to a higher straight) I think making a move to take the pot down on the flop is fine - specially as his flop-bet is really weak.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:57 PM
HP_Drifter HP_Drifter is offline
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Default Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?

I guess I just don't understand your reasoning lev. Do you really think we're behind villains ranges here? Unless I had some sort of read that either of the villains knew what they were doing, I am assuming there is a very good chance that I've got the best hand pre. I'm not saying that I would always 3bet here, I actually usually wouldnt, but I think it's a viable option. The fact that we're last to act is specifically why I would 3bet - if the flop is good and we're checked to, I think another bet takes it down a huge portion of the time.

*edit* forgot to ask, how does 3betting to 450 commit us? We're 100 BB deep...

As far as semibluffing the flop goes, I just think it's a horrible idea. There are so many cards that could come on the turn that would completely shut us down, and I also think theres a decent chance our raise gets re-raised by the original raiser, and even if not, I think our raise gets called almost every time. Am I way off here?
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:18 PM
levAA levAA is offline
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Default Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?

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how does 3betting to 450 commit us? We're 100 BB deep...

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I did not say you are committed, but you cross the commitment threshold - this is a cash-game concept (and this hand with 100BB deep is quite similar to a cash-game). It's about how your money goes on on later betting rounds with pot sized bets. If you take this hand as an example, you 3-bet to 450 and hit an ace on the flop. If you think you have the best hand (and to answer your second point here - a jack as kicker is trash - so i'm not sure at all that we are ahead preflop or on an ace-high flop) you have to bet. If we make a PSB and get called there is 3000 in the pot on the turn and now you are committed with top pair.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:00 PM
HP_Drifter HP_Drifter is offline
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Default Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?

Okay, cool, that makes sense. I'd still like to hear an extended explanation on the semi-bluffing thing though, if you're willing. Isn't that board too ugly to semibluff? I just feel that we'd be folding the turn a whole bunch.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2007, 04:12 PM
J.A.K. J.A.K. is offline
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Default Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?

HP,

It's an optimistic range that has our AJ ahead preflop. And I still believe you are underestimating our FE on the flop.

In my original response I thought we had more equity against the top part of his range if villain decided to shove our flop raise. In my haste, I did not notice PStove resetting the board and I was looking at preflop equity again rather than post flop, which I mistakenly took to give us enough to call a shove should one arise.

I still think his entire preflop range is represented by that weak lead and we fold out a chunk of it including AK by raising the flop. If he calls, we likely get a free river with decent outs. Standard is probably call flop, ck turn, then whatever on the river. But I am not ready to give up on raising the flop just yet. Looks like a decent spot to grab some chips.

Edit: kaws i keighnt spel
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