Chimpanzee Fight Question From El Diablo

[mpethybridge]

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You all have been talking about competitive martial arts. No one has said anything about the variants that are designed to be lethal.

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The majority of techniques taught at any MMA-related school are lethal, if that is your goal. Any BJJ choke is lethal if applied long enough, and all striking disciplines are lethal if you KO your opponent and keep hitting, obviously. Even holds like armbars and heel-hooks are dangerous, considering if applied and not released until the maximum damage is done, whichever appendage that was caught is now useless, and the victim is incapacitated or close to it. Also, as you stated, the techniques you describe are stealth-type techniques, which aren't useful if your opponent knows you are about to attack him. My point is you don't have to be trained specifically to kill, and in most MMA techniques the "lethal variant" is simply not letting go of your hold. Any fully-trained well-rounded MMA fighter would beat a military trained attacker with ease, in most case, given the fact they are trained in takedown defense, striking offense/defense, submission offense/defense, etc.

All that said, the chimp is the nuts, as many already have stated. All the techniques in the world would be useless against an enraged chimp that has the raw power to critically injure you with even a glancing blow. Trying to apply any sort of submission on a struggling chimp would be impossible.

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The particular move I described was a stealth technique. Most are not. I believe this one would be an effective killing maneuver if you could somehow manage to get into position on the chimp. Were I fighting the chimp, I think I would attempt to implement a strategy that put me in position to kill the chimp with a variant of this stealth move.

As for the ultimate fighters: again, I have no idea what that is, so I can't discuss their capabilities. I imagine they are superbly trained martial artists, and, if so, would favorably match up against your average elite trooper in any sort of a contest not to the death. It is the to the death part that changes the equation, though. First, there is the ruthlessness involved in killing. Second, lethal hand to hand, as taught to the military, focuses on speed and lethality. There is no fight, per se--the trained attacker simply executes a killing blow appropriate to the circumstances. For example, if attacked by a knife wielding opponent, a military fighter is trained to execute one of 3 incapacitating/take down moves (depending on the knife attack employed), and follow with one of 3 or 4 swift killing moves. Total engagement time is about 1-2 seconds. One of these moves, by the way, is to disarm the knife-wielding attacker by impaling your weak hand on the blade. You see what I mean about ruthlessness? It takes a different mindset to engage in a fight to the death, and if you do not take for granted the fact that it is logical to sacrifice your hand to gain a momentary advantage, and if you cannot make this sacrifice instantly, without hesitation, you will die if your opponent has roughly similar skills.

But non-lethal, defensive skills are important if the engagement lasts past the first attack. In that, you are correct. So I think your contest martial artist probably would: 1. be killed by your average military-trained elite soldier/seal fairly quickly (8-10 seconds, absolute max) or 2. incapacitate the soldier/seal type in an engagement that lasted perhaps > 8-10 seconds. Stated more simply, the soldier/seal type either kills quickly or loses to a trained martial artist.

As for the chimp, I think this whole thread has underestimated the importance of intelligence/training in a fight. With due regard for the abilities of the chimp, there is simply no way the blind rage/ferocity of a chimp overcomes the intelligent, calculated deadliness of a someone trained in military-style lethal hand to hand combat.

I will listen to argument on this subject from spec ops types who have mastered the relevant training and who think they would be outclassed; otherwise, I can't take seriously an opinion on fighting to the death from people who have never done it or at least trained extensively for it. You just can't know.

[breitling996]

jfk..... that was the funniest post i have ever read... u r a god!!!

[drunkencowboy]

First of all, in selecting a representative for humans in this fight, I would not pick a UFC fighter. I dont see Royce Gracie putting the chimp into a triangle, or Randy the Natural using a rear naked choke lol to get the ape to tap out.

I do think though, that there probably is a man in the world (perhaps in Africa) who has super-strength and agility (compared to David Sklanksy and the rest of the forum). The man could weigh like 370 pounds at 7'6 or something (super Shaq). The man could have been faced with killing all kinds of animals in real life and could be considered a savage. A man like this may have the brute force and size to kill the ape. He may resort to eye gouging, but then again, the chimp will probably go for the face too during the fight.

Also, If someone gave it enough study they could develop a martial arts specifically for combating chimpanzees... Perhaps chimps have vulnerabilities in their fighting style that a human could capitalize on.

But if you found the big guy i described and also had a fighter who learned Chimpjitzu, id still put my money on the chimp [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

A 150 pound chimp can kill a crocidile with its bare hands - this is true.

side note: if you want to watch a cool movie (or documentary) you should look for Discovery Channels show "Planet Earth". It took them like 5 years of filming (prolly digital) to make, but has really beautiful footage and upclose nature action. Its pretty awesome. It will show you how 2 chimps take care of 1 smaller enemy chimp (spoiler - they rip it apart by the limbs)...

David: We all know you have some serious ties in Las Vegas. Is there somehow you could make a fight like this happen?!

Holyfield vs Curious George. FIGHT NIGHT. ONLY ON PAY PER VIEW.

[MuresanForMVP]

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Gay porn will not change the fact that an average chimp could kill any man on the planet.

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Typical ignorant response. People used to say the same stupid stuff about MMA fighters being invincible until they saw them get their asses beat by 100lb Chimps in less than a minute.

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FYP

[Hoi Polloi]

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One of these moves, by the way, is to disarm the knife-wielding attacker by impaling your weak hand on the blade. You see what I mean about ruthlessness?


I will listen to argument on this subject from spec ops types who have mastered the relevant training...I can't take seriously an opinion on fighting to the death from people who have never done it or at least trained extensively for it. You just can't know.

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How often have you practiced that "impale the weak hand on the knife" move? How long did it take until you knew you could do it without hesitation? Also, how often did you see your instructors kill?

[Hoi Polloi]

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A friend once had an involuntary battle with a full grown, adult orangutan when he went into a Malaysian preserve earlier than the guide's scheduled arrival. Though the orangutan was tough, my buddy eventually got the best of it.

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I know your friend. Isn't he the guy who almost catches really huge fish when he goes fishing alone?

[Atlanta Andrew]

mpethybridge,

Your post is interesting and gives a different perspective on the topic, but it does not address any aspect of the chimp's physical abilities. You basically said that a trained combat soldier is more tactically proficient and intelligent than a chimp, and would therefore kill the chimp. Okay.

Using that same train of thought, one could imply from your post that this soldier could also take out a gorilla, lion, etc...I know you are not making that claim, but do you understand my point?

At what level do you think the soldier's combat skill would not compensate for other defeciencies such as strength and agility? Why does the chimp, in your opinion, not meet this threshold of overpoweredness?

-Andrew